Lean WOT after 3v MAF - Saleen F150

[Vette vs Stang]

I?ve successfully supercharged my 04 F150 5.4 with a takeoff Saleen Supercharger I found on EBay. Idle and part throttle are great. Tons of torque. Once my MAF reads over 3 bolts though, my STFTs shoot up to +25%. I?m commanding .78 at the time. Interestingly though, it bogs and reeks of fuel. In fact, I think it runs better when I command less fuel, but I don?t want to command less than .80 for obvious reasons. Fuel trims are rich at idle and within 3% midway. Just wondering if you guys have encountered an issue like that. I?ve turned off MAF adapt and all Cylair switches to remove most SD from trying to affect my WOT, though something still is. My timing is at 13 as commanded, knock is actually adding 2 more to 15 today. My TB is at 83*. And fuel is being added so I don?t see any limiters causing this. I?m on my phone now so I?ll post a log later when I get to the computer. Thanks!

[B E N]

I had a similar issue which ended up being a vac leak between the maf and TB.

[Thatwhite5.0]

You will need a wideband to tune a boosted 04 f150. I've tuned two boosted 04 f150s. One was bored and stroked with 15psi. He maxed out the stock MAF so I had him get a sct ba3000. Replaced the o2 sensors as well.
I had both of them buy a wideband before I even started tuning on them. Both of them would max stft at +25% every wot pull but the WB was showing perfect. I'm not sure why or what the cause was. Could be something the 04 o2s arent capable of. They're the oldest f150 supported.

I 100% suggest a wideband on anything boosted even if the fuel trims are reading properly.

[Vette vs Stang]

Thanks, I?ll look into that!

[Vette vs Stang]

Sound advice. I haven?t had a chance to install a WB, but I will. I?m glad mine is not the only one going crazy on WOT STFT.

[B E N]

Oh, I didn't realize there was no wb installed. Yes, that's a requirement.

[Thatwhite5.0]

For sure. Your STFT could be reading -3/-7 commanding .8 wot Lamda.. Actual Lamda could be .95. Who knows. Once you have a WB installed, just correct fuel trims using it. There wasn't a particular flow, load, or psi. Any WOT showed +25%. Not going to say it's normal, but it's definitely common and tuneable. Disable MAF adaption too 👍

[Vette vs Stang]

Yes. That?s my issue. I can see the soot in the exhaust. I can smell the extra fuel. It seems super rich, yet any WOT value registers +25% no matter what I do to the MAF curve. Even if I richen it, it bogs more and it still says +25%. Go figure. Regardless I?ll verify with a WB. I just wanted to be sure there wasn?t something I had missed if it went full STFT every time I went WOT. Otherwise I had disabled all SD to populate LWFM and my transfer curve is spot on everywhere when I?m CL.

[Tech708CC]

This is something Ford does. I have a 2005 F150 with a Whipple on it. I am commanding .76 @ wot and mine shows 32% and the commanded equivalence goes to 1.32.

[B E N]

There is something wrong with your tune then, my whippled 3v does not do that. It is not a "ford" thing.

Start by looking at your torque/inverse tables, they are the main fuel controller in a Spanish Oak system.

Copy these tables and this channel log. These 5 parameters will get you a good start, just focus on them and the why. Use a good base tune from a whipple cal, make absolutely certain your injector data is correct, get the MAF dialed in early, don't hammer it and do stupid shit that will kill your engine (like WOT runs when your commanding 32%, you WILL lose an engine). Keep your channels to a minimum, get rid of the gauges they are a distraction from proper logging. I believe typing these in will help you understand why you are doing what you are doing:

Decipha lwfm.png

maf error.png

TA + E.png

IPC.png

inverse load.png

Filter function for this one: [50091.156]>10 AND [50091.156.avg(300)]<20 AND [50091.156.slope(300)]>5 and [50010.242]>140

Don't obsess over IPC error, it will work itself out. Just monitor it, should get smaller with every iteration

[Tech708CC]

There is something wrong with your tune then, my whippled 3v does not do that. It is not a "ford" thing.

Start by looking at your torque/inverse tables, they are the main fuel controller in a Spanish Oak system.

Copy these tables and this channel log. These 5 parameters will get you a good start, just focus on them and the why. Use a good base tune from a whipple cal, make absolutely certain your injector data is correct, get the MAF dialed in early, don't hammer it and do stupid shit that will kill your engine (like WOT runs when your commanding 32%, you WILL lose an engine). Keep your channels to a minimum, get rid of the gauges they are a distraction from proper logging. I believe typing these in will help you understand why you are doing what you are doing:

Decipha lwfm.png

maf error.png

TA + E.png

IPC.png

inverse load.png

Filter function for this one: [50091.156]>10 AND [50091.156.avg(300)]<20 AND [50091.156.slope(300)]>5 and [50010.242]>140

Don't obsess over IPC error, it will work itself out. Just monitor it, should get smaller with every iteration

Ok first thanks for the pointers as they enforced a lot of what I did when I first got it running.
Now mine is not a Spanish Oak It is a Black Oak and I have seen several OLDER fords show up a strange percentage in the STFT at WOT believe it or not.
I did a read on my ecm with the stock whipple cal and went from there as I used 47lb injectors and a larger MAF housing.

[decipha]

short term fuel trim is lambse on the older fords which is always the commanded fuel ratio

its always best to use spk_lambse for target lambda and you can never go wrong

[Vette vs Stang]

Update: I got a much better MAF that was within 5% of the generic spectra intake I?m using. I got a wideband installed and sure enough, I?m at AFR 9.9-10.5 through the pull even as my ST/LT read +28%. It pulls great but I?m probably gonna lean it up to 11.5 like my Shelby.
I?m also going to work on hooking up my wideband output to the CMVC input line and see if I can datalog it like that. Then once fueling is fixed, I?ll log MAP like that. I?ll see if it works later.
By the way? does anyone have any pics or wiring diagrams for the Saleen boost gauge on an S331? I found an original setup on eBay, but the wiring was wrong. I got the IAT gauge working but the boost gauge uses an additional map sensor mounted in the cabin as a reference signal. I can figure out how to wire that though. Thanks!

[Tadias48]

The older ford ecm will show trims at wot and open loop but it's just the lambda difference from 1. So, if you are asking for 78 lambda fuel trims will show +22. doesn't mean you're running 22% lean it's just showing the percent the ecm is adding from 1 lambda.

[Thatwhite5.0]

I found an original setup on eBay, but the wiring was wrong. I got the IAT gauge working but the boost gauge uses an additional map sensor mounted in the cabin as a reference signal. I can figure out how to wire that though. Thanks!

Is this any help?

saleen gauge pod.GIF

[Vette vs Stang]

The older ford ecm will show trims at wot and open loop but it's just the lambda difference from 1. So, if you are asking for 78 lambda fuel trims will show +22. doesn't mean you're running 22% lean it's just showing the percent the ecm is adding from 1 lambda.

Thanks. That actually answers a lot of questions, because it?s a progressive increase just as my rate to lambda is. It was so odd to see it adding fuel when I was rich according to wideband. This makes way more sense now. Thanks.

[Vette vs Stang]

Is this any help?


saleen gauge pod.GIF

Thanks! I appreciate the help. However, the sender for the s331 is the same TMAP as the Cobras so the scale is reversed. It uses a second MAP sensor inside the gauge pod as a reference voltage so that the gauge will read 0 psi. Otherwise, it?s reading 3psi at idle which is clearly wrong. The gauge is a 5 wire setup for this reason. I had solved the wiring, but forgot to update the post. Your image does apply to the 4 wire gauge in other models such as S281 so it may help someone else that comes across it. I do appreciate the help. You come across as very knowledgeable and always willing to help in these forums.