ALCH Percent not showing on Flex Coyote

[ksampler]

Hello all, does anybody know if there is something I need to do to get my ALCH percent on the VCM Scanner working? I moved all of the FFV tables from an F150 and turned on Flex Logic. I went and put a few gallons of E-85 in the tank and the car learned more alcohol in the fuel (AFR stabilized around 10-10.5) but the VCM Scanner still says 0. I tried with the Stable VCM Suite and the Beta VCM Suite with no difference.

It won't allow me to upload my tune, but here's a log of the car.

Car: 2016 Mustang GT Premium with Performance Pack
Controller OS: FPGP6KS

16gt flex log.hpl

[G-Town-GT]

Under Vehicle Tab -> repoll for supported parameters

[ksampler]

Under Vehicle Tab -> repoll for supported parameters

Already tried that. I even tried on another PC with a fresh VCM Scanner install and nothing.

[metroplex]

What's your Inferred Stochiometric AFR, and Inferred AFR Source and AFR Status? Just curious.

[ksampler]

What's your Inferred Stochiometric AFR, and Inferred AFR Source and AFR Status? Just curious.

I'll run by the garage tomorrow and grab a log for you logging those.

[1810R80]

I'm having this same problem on a 2019 GT. Ethanol %, inferred afr status, and inferred stoich disappear from the channels list when I start logging. It's almost like the flex fuel logic isn't enabled even though the FFV tables are all set up. The car is stock with X pipe and long tubes, it also doesn't have rear o2's. Does anyone know if the lack of rear o2's would prevent the flex fuel logic from working?

[metroplex]

Does your current tune have FFV enabled? I'm sure you went into VCM Scanner and repolled for supported parameters?

[ksampler]

I'm having this same problem on a 2019 GT. Ethanol %, inferred afr status, and inferred stoich disappear from the channels list when I start logging. It's almost like the flex fuel logic isn't enabled even though the FFV tables are all set up. The car is stock with X pipe and long tubes, it also doesn't have rear o2's. Does anyone know if the lack of rear o2's would prevent the flex fuel logic from working?

Does your current tune have FFV enabled? I'm sure you went into VCM Scanner and repolled for supported parameters?

Don't you need both o2's for FFV to work? Also I swear I'm gonna get you your log lol works been sending me out of town lately.

[Jackson3010]

No you do not need rear 02s for flex to work

[ksampler]

What's your Inferred Stochiometric AFR, and Inferred AFR Source and AFR Status? Just curious.

Ok, now that I am back from work travel (I was in your neck of the woods for like 3 weeks) I got you a log for the car. It is like a 30 min log since I logged my drive to work to ensure that the alch matured. It matured but stayed in a fault state ("Fault Exit") for AFR Status. I will toss some E85 in it to get it in its "Refueling" state at some point tomorrow or Thursday. Also, I know the channel table looks like trash but was only looking at a couple of channels today.ffv.hpl

[metroplex]

Ok, now that I am back from work travel (I was in your neck of the woods for like 3 weeks) I got you a log for the car. It is like a 30 min log since I logged my drive to work to ensure that the alch matured. It matured but stayed in a fault state ("Fault Exit") for AFR Status. I will toss some E85 in it to get it in its "Refueling" state at some point tomorrow or Thursday. Also, I know the channel table looks like trash but was only looking at a couple of channels today.ffv.hpl

Hey, thanks for doing this! I hope the SE MI area was great for your 3 week stay! The weather hasn't been too bad as the real snow doesn't start usually until December.

But looks like you're able to get it matured within 16 minutes, same as my FFV Explorer.

It's interesting how your inferred AFR is 14.00 or lower, but the inferred ethanol % stays 0. Even on my FFV Explorer, the inferred ethanol is about 10% since our fuel is 10% ethanol. Did you copy the Ethanol % AFR table (Table 21320) Should be 9.00 is 100% and 14.64 is 0% - the default table is all 14.64 in the rows with 0 in the column. Just change the first row from 14.64 to 9 and make that cell 100%

I've tried everything but cannot get my 2.7 EcoBoost to mature the AFR, it is stuck in actively learning. I've asked one 2.3 EcoBoost tuner and they only sell ethanol blended tunes and not flex fuel enabled tunes. My 2 theories is that there's some undefined parameter that prevents it from working or it is the design of the wideband primary o2 sensor. The EcoBoost/DI engines use a physically different O2 design from the FFV engines and the Coyote.

[paulsmithsr]

Flex doesn’t work. Use dedicated e85 and pump gas tune - it never is constant

[ksampler]

Hey, thanks for doing this! I hope the SE MI area was great for your 3 week stay! The weather hasn't been too bad as the real snow doesn't start usually until December.

But looks like you're able to get it matured within 16 minutes, same as my FFV Explorer.

It's interesting how your inferred AFR is 14.00 or lower, but the inferred ethanol % stays 0. Even on my FFV Explorer, the inferred ethanol is about 10% since our fuel is 10% ethanol. Did you copy the Ethanol % AFR table (Table 21320) Should be 9.00 is 100% and 14.64 is 0% - the default table is all 14.64 in the rows with 0 in the column. Just change the first row from 14.64 to 9 and make that cell 100%

I've tried everything but cannot get my 2.7 EcoBoost to mature the AFR, it is stuck in actively learning. I've asked one 2.3 EcoBoost tuner and they only sell ethanol blended tunes and not flex fuel enabled tunes. My 2 theories is that there's some undefined parameter that prevents it from working or it is the design of the wideband primary o2 sensor. The EcoBoost/DI engines use a physically different O2 design from the FFV engines and the Coyote.

I am gonna hate myself if that was the only issue. That is literally the only FFV table I did not copy from the F150 file... I am gonna flash it and see what we are looking at.

I never had this table copied over but I could still fill it with E85 and it would trim the AFR down to 9.5-10ish. Was it only doing that because the wide bands correcting for improper fueling?

Trip was good, a little too cold for my tastes currently. I left 60 degree weather in Denver for 30-40 in Grand Blanc lol

[metroplex]

I am gonna hate myself if that was the only issue. That is literally the only FFV table I did not copy from the F150 file... I am gonna flash it and see what we are looking at.

I never had this table copied over but I could still fill it with E85 and it would trim the AFR down to 9.5-10ish. Was it only doing that because the wide bands correcting for improper fueling?

Trip was good, a little too cold for my tastes currently. I left 60 degree weather in Denver for 30-40 in Grand Blanc lol

The same thking kind of happens with my 2.7 EcoBoost. It will adjust the AFR to match as the widebands are sensitive enough to pick up on the lean trim and adjust as needed. Even without enabling flex fuel, I've gone E50+ on the stock 14.08 stoich and the LTFT would be really positive to adjust automatically! In the past, I'd set my stoich to match the E85 blend (aka E30 tune) and that just means the LTFT is closer to 0. BUt otherwise everything else ran the same had I kept stoich at 14.08 and let the widebands do their thing. My issue is that in flex fuel mode it just never matures the inferred AFR and this is bad juju (purge valve doesn't operate and seems to impact OBD2 readiness tests/checks). Like everything is held in limbo until it sees it matures - but it will run just fine with full E85.

There are some other FFV tables you may want to look at, like the cold start fueling. I found that my 2.7 took longer to crank when the temperatures got cooler with full E85. This is the nature of the beast with E85, it needs more fuel to be able to start easier in colder weather. When the temps got to 60F or below, it would take like 1-2 seconds of cranking. I made the fueling richer for cold start cranking and it resolved it. 21902 should be the table. I think I got peeved off and just copied the regular crank table and doubled the values for the FFV crank table. It seemed to work better with full E85 during cold starts.

[ksampler]

The same thking kind of happens with my 2.7 EcoBoost. It will adjust the AFR to match as the widebands are sensitive enough to pick up on the lean trim and adjust as needed. Even without enabling flex fuel, I've gone E50+ on the stock 14.08 stoich and the LTFT would be really positive to adjust automatically! In the past, I'd set my stoich to match the E85 blend (aka E30 tune) and that just means the LTFT is closer to 0. BUt otherwise everything else ran the same had I kept stoich at 14.08 and let the widebands do their thing. My issue is that in flex fuel mode it just never matures the inferred AFR and this is bad juju (purge valve doesn't operate and seems to impact OBD2 readiness tests/checks). Like everything is held in limbo until it sees it matures - but it will run just fine with full E85.

There are some other FFV tables you may want to look at, like the cold start fueling. I found that my 2.7 took longer to crank when the temperatures got cooler with full E85. This is the nature of the beast with E85, it needs more fuel to be able to start easier in colder weather. When the temps got to 60F or below, it would take like 1-2 seconds of cranking. I made the fueling richer for cold start cranking and it resolved it. 21902 should be the table. I think I got peeved off and just copied the regular crank table and doubled the values for the FFV crank table. It seemed to work better with full E85 during cold starts.

Yeah, my tables are copied for FFV. Currently.

Here are my tables: https://imgur.com/a/KAGfROO

I absolutely hate this site's attachment feature. Literally does not work half the time.

[ksampler]

The same thking kind of happens with my 2.7 EcoBoost. It will adjust the AFR to match as the widebands are sensitive enough to pick up on the lean trim and adjust as needed. Even without enabling flex fuel, I've gone E50+ on the stock 14.08 stoich and the LTFT would be really positive to adjust automatically! In the past, I'd set my stoich to match the E85 blend (aka E30 tune) and that just means the LTFT is closer to 0. BUt otherwise everything else ran the same had I kept stoich at 14.08 and let the widebands do their thing. My issue is that in flex fuel mode it just never matures the inferred AFR and this is bad juju (purge valve doesn't operate and seems to impact OBD2 readiness tests/checks). Like everything is held in limbo until it sees it matures - but it will run just fine with full E85.

There are some other FFV tables you may want to look at, like the cold start fueling. I found that my 2.7 took longer to crank when the temperatures got cooler with full E85. This is the nature of the beast with E85, it needs more fuel to be able to start easier in colder weather. When the temps got to 60F or below, it would take like 1-2 seconds of cranking. I made the fueling richer for cold start cranking and it resolved it. 21902 should be the table. I think I got peeved off and just copied the regular crank table and doubled the values for the FFV crank table. It seemed to work better with full E85 during cold starts.

I am going to go ahead and flash this and run and grab some lunch, grabbing logs. Do you have a Channel layout that is useful for coyotes?

[metroplex]

XLT 26.Channels.xml

Here's what I use for my N/A 3.5 V6 on the Explorer. I don't have one for Coyote, but it might help you get some ideas.

[ksampler]

XLT 26.Channels.xml

Here's what I use for my N/A 3.5 V6 on the Explorer. I don't have one for Coyote, but it might help you get some ideas.

So here is a new log. How long does it sit in "Refueling"? I put a full tank of E85 in it (about 12 gallons) and went and grabbed food in a drive-thru then drove home and only learned 58% and still is in "Actively Learning" and "Refueling" I am guessing my fuel is testing at 60% ish or it still needs time..

e85.hpl

[metroplex]

It should learn in 1 or 2 drive cycles. Mustang has a 16 gallon fuel tank, so that sounds about right-ish assuming the E85 is maybe 70% ethanol. I bet if you went for another drive it should switch to Fault Exit and Matured.

[ksampler]

It should learn in 1 or 2 drive cycles. Mustang has a 16 gallon fuel tank, so that sounds about right-ish assuming the E85 is maybe 70% ethanol. I bet if you went for another drive it should switch to Fault Exit and Matured.

Sick I will keep an eye on it when I go back out today. Thanks for that last piece of the puzzle! Now time to compare the F150 file and double-check to make sure everything is copied over.