TR Intervention & Not Following Commanded Line Pressure

[barkingspud]

To be blunt, I think y’all are heading down the wrong path.

The torque source is driver demand. While the shift is taking place, it changes to shift modulation then back to driver demand. Once it switches back to driver demand, it’s no longer modulating torque for the shift, but for some other reason spark stays in torque control. It would follow that it’s trying to achieve the lower ETC torque request since the wot start and end force the throttle blade open. There are also time limits for shift modulation, whereas this on lingers longer than that.

Table 44775 spark torque ratio is the first resort when cutting torque. 0.0 allows most control (within limits) and 1.0 is no control. Here’s the problem….if it doesn’t get what it wants with spark, it moves to enleanment. Your table 44775 is already set up to bypass enleanment and move to fuel cut, which is better. If you disable spark torque, it will just move on to fuel cut. The best way to manage this is to figure out why it’s reducing torque and address the cause.

That said, under transmission torque management, you can raise or lower the torque allowed during the shifts. If you max out these values, it won’t cut torque for the shift…at the expense of transmission hard parts.

Never said it was the right path as each path is different. Depends on your appetite for risk of broken parts. As far as raising TQ limits in Trans TQ Mgmt, it will still modulate unless you turn off TQ Modulation. Again, all depends on what your goals and appetite for risk are.

[1badss]

To be blunt, I think y’all are heading down the wrong path.

The torque source is driver demand. While the shift is taking place, it changes to shift modulation then back to driver demand. Once it switches back to driver demand, it’s no longer modulating torque for the shift, but for some other reason spark stays in torque control. It would follow that it’s trying to achieve the lower ETC torque request since the wot start and end force the throttle blade open. There are also time limits for shift modulation, whereas this on lingers longer than that.

Table 44775 spark torque ratio is the first resort when cutting torque. 0.0 allows most control (within limits) and 1.0 is no control. Here’s the problem….if it doesn’t get what it wants with spark, it moves to enleanment. Your table 44775 is already set up to bypass enleanment and move to fuel cut, which is better. If you disable spark torque, it will just move on to fuel cut. The best way to manage this is to figure out why it’s reducing torque and address the cause.

That said, under transmission torque management, you can raise or lower the torque allowed during the shifts. If you max out these values, it won’t cut torque for the shift…at the expense of transmission hard parts.

I agree 100% and I am not looking to bandaid this file, and rather do it the right way. I have always been a proponent for TM and would like to keep it if possible.

I think the trans line pressure has been found, and I will test as soon as I can, but still would like a proper resolution for the ETC Torque request being low.

[barkingspud]

snip - but still would like a proper resolution for the ETC Torque request being low.

That is the million dollar question in my mind. Would love to find the answer.

[1badss]

I can assure you if I figure it out, I will update this thread with the resolution, so it can be useful in the future.

[barkingspud]

I can assure you if I figure it out, I will update this thread with the resolution, so it can be useful in the future.

Excellent. I'd say I would have a solution but my track season is over until next year.

[engineermike]

….As far as raising TQ limits in Trans TQ Mgmt, it will still modulate unless you turn off TQ Modulation….

Interesting. When I had upshift torque modulation set at 738 I wasn’t getting any cut at all on the shifts.

[1badss]

Interesting. When I had upshift torque modulation set at 738 I wasn?t getting any cut at all on the shifts.

My tests showed the same when I moved the values to 738

[barkingspud]

Interesting. When I had upshift torque modulation set at 738 I wasn’t getting any cut at all on the shifts.

I'd have to re-test but I remember having to turn off Torque Modulation. I have all my limits at 738 like both of you. I don't have the option to test in the street like some. All of my tuning beyond simple HP glory pulls on the dyno is all done at the drag strip.

[murfie]

Under speed density, air charge multiplier, and maximum load need to be increased to get your request up. The clip/ add torque use to get in the way also, but I don't think thats a thing on the 18+ anymore.

[1badss]

Under speed density, air charge multiplier, and maximum load need to be increased to get your request up. The clip/ add torque use to get in the way also, but I don't think thats a thing on the 18+ anymore.

Thank you Murfie! Assuming making max aircharge load 1.99 would be a more realistic number? Also how much of an increase should the aircharge multiplier receive?

[veeefour]

That said, under transmission torque management, you can raise or lower the torque allowed during the shifts. If you max out these values, it won?t cut torque for the shift?at the expense of transmission hard parts.

But it will, a bit different compared to 6r...10r has another logic called "trans tq +" - this is usually related to excessive trans slip/ Even tho tq
modulation is maxed you still have some modulation - dont ask me why because I dont know. Spark will drop anyways - this is buried deep in the shift properties tab.

OP, even tho your trans is build you need to work on pressures - I can bet 100 that your trans is slipping like crazy hence your extended torque reduction.

[veeefour]

Under speed density, air charge multiplier, and maximum load need to be increased to get your request up. The clip/ add torque use to get in the way also, but I don't think thats a thing on the 18+ anymore.

Not true, sorry M but just not true.

Clip/add and max map is not longer useful on gen 3.

[1badss]

But it will, a bit different compared to 6r...10r has another logic called "trans tq +" - this is usually related to excessive trans slip/ Even tho tq
modulation is maxed you still have some modulation - dont ask me why because I dont know. Spark will drop anyways - this is buried deep in the shift properties tab.

OP, even tho your trans is build you need to work on pressures - I can bet 100 that your trans is slipping like crazy hence your extended torque reduction.

What's tables typically need adjusted to get more pressure from these? I found a few tables that seemed to have pressure capped at 1700kpa per engineers suggestion, is there any other than need attention? What pressure do you typically find acceptable at these 1000+ power levels?

[engineermike]

Torque+ trans is its own torque source, and I’ve seen it in my logs. His torque source is driver demand.

[veeefour]

A lot of trans problems will not show up in the log...OP sorry but you tune is full of issues...this is not a matter of giving you an advice or two...

[veeefour]

Engagement stroke pressure adder - this helps to bump your holding pressure
Stroke pressure adder - this helps to bump your pressure on shifts

Under properties Boost time and pressure is also helpful.

[murfie]

If you just go totally linear on the inverse relationship, this is how far off your TTL tables are. Where did you get these values from? Its kind of like some one didn't compensate for the offset in the stock axis's, when they renormalized what they go up too.

The direct torque values from load values

Linear relationship.PNG

After calculating


Linear relationship calculated.PNG

Difference from original values.


Linear relationship difference.PNG

MP23 is not an inverse relationship from one another in your tune. The regression lines would have the same or very similar values in an inverse relationship.

Not inverse.PNG

Stock inverse of MP 23 when you leave out the nonsense 1.1 stuff filled in by HPT template.

Stock inverse.PNG

Stock MP0 is a better example, its completely filled out unlike the IMRC open MP's

Stock inverse MP0.PNG

[engineermike]

Murfie do you think that is the reason it isn’t requesting over 500 ftlb?

[murfie]

Murfie do you think that is the reason it isn’t requesting over 500 ftlb?

I suspect the non inverse relationship was setup because of the request limit. I'm told what I know to be a maximum request limit, "just isn't true".

[veeefour]

Ive said that claimng SD(as you posted)has anything to do with it is not true and id still say that any day.

TM is a problem, you need to read more carefully.