Stoich early at startup and rich at normal temp on flex fuel

[marksrig]

I've looked around on this issue and haven't found answers that really tell me what to try. Usually the other threads answers I've done or didn't need to do because it was already correct.

2014 Camaro ZL1 with the LSA E67
Cammed, pulleys, ported SC, FIClinic injectors with their data and on Flex with a sensor.

So there is one tune file and two logs.

1. The startup log shows the engine going into stoich very early while in OL. I'm not sure why. I want it to stay near commanded more. It did this on pump gas too so I don't think the E60 in the tank is the issue

2. The warmed up log I do believe I'm running rich because something in the E85 tables is off. (Log is forced OL to show rich problem) Runs within a couple percent on e10 pump.

I'm sure this is something simple I'm missing. The tune is Dynamic and I know the MAF and VE isn't exactly matching at idle. They do much better off idle. Thats for another day.

Please give me some ideas to try. Thank You


cold start test 102221.hpl

rich on E60 102221.hpl

Dynamic HP Tuners.hpt

Edit: Here is a stock 2014 from the depository. I don't have my original.

STOCK 2014 ZL1.hpt

[JustinWhiteTuned]

post your stock file as the repository doesnt have a stock 2014 zl1. i believe i see the issue here

[marksrig]

STOCK 2014 ZL1.hpt

This is the best I have. It's from the depository.

I see in the Open Loop EQ Ratio area where it might change it, but still confused why it's commanding rich and going stoich early.

Thanks for the look

[cadillactech]

Your OL EQ ratio table is asking for 1.0 when your coolant is 108 and your intake valve is 226, which is what your log shows. Change that to whatever you want and it should follow.

[marksrig]

Your OL EQ ratio table is asking for 1.0 when your coolant is 108 and your intake valve is 226, which is what your log shows. Change that to whatever you want and it should follow.

I suppose it doesn't help when I have a blend of flex instead of pump or full E85.
i see that it's commanding 1.00 at those numbers in the log, but if I go to the tune for those readings, Alcohol EQ Ratio is in the high .80's not 1.00 and Gas EQ is high .98 but I'm at 60% E. I wouldve thought it would follow the commanded for the alcohol closer than gas.
I guess what I'm asking happens just after startup when the commanded is like .88 and the EQ wideband is 1.04....This is where I'm confused. Is the wideband still warming up?

see small attachment

EQ.JPG

coolant temp is 61F

I'll lower those areas in both gas and alcohol and try it again. maybe the WB isnt perfect that soon

[marksrig]

OK, well I flashed the attached tune with the EQ ratio richened up but screwed up and erased the log instead of saving. Anyway my WB went to 1.00 within 15 seconds and the commanded was in the .80's.
Not sure why I'm going stoich instead of following commanded.

I'll post a new log when it goes cold again.
Tune below

Dynamic HP Tuners 2.hpt

[cadillactech]

Sorry I just quickly glanced, I see you have E60. There is a blend factor just below the OL EQ tables that blends the gas and ethanol tables based on ethanol percentage. You also have the gain tables to the right of your OL EQ tables that multiply your EQ ratio. This will affect your final OL EQ ratio.

You can set those all to be a non factor and see if your commanded OL EQ ratio matches what you log.

You wide band should have a heater which will allow you to warm it before you cold start the engine. If the ECM is commanding .88 and the wide band is reading 1.04 then your airflow model is off(assuming your injectors are characterized correctly!)

If you are trying to calibrate your airflow model this way, set your OL EQ ratio to 1, log your wide band and adjust your airflow model(which ever you are using) based off the error the wide band is showing you.

You should be calibrating the airflow model with a fully warmed engine for accurate results and once you are done with that, set your OL EQ ratio to something reasonable to keep it running ok while it warms up.

[marksrig]

Both VVE and MAF were calibrated with a fully warmed up engine and Injector Tip Temps stable. When the car is fully warm there is no issue with fueling with Pump 93. The original post was a 2 part question. I am rich with the E60 when the car is fully warm in forced OL. which I still dont get if the sensor is doing its job. My fuel injector specs were from FIClinic and they seem fine especially if my fueling warm on pump is within 3% or less.

Both my widebands have heaters AEM X Series and I Air calibrated them a month ago before I started the original tuning.
If I had to fix only one issue of my two problems, it would be the running rich with E60. The cold start is OK I guess, it just concerned me because the car was wanting a richer start but it was going stoich almost immediately while still in OL..

[marksrig]

OK. Here is another log. In this one you can see EQ commanded is rich all the way until it goes CL. The WB shows it going stoich within a few seconds after starting. This I don't understand

cold start hp tuners 2.hpl Log

Dynamic HP Tuners 2.hpt Tune

Looks like STFT are pulling fueling out in OL at startup

[cadillactech]

What do you want the commanded EQ to be in OL?

The second log I see the commanded EQ starts rich and progressively get leaner until CL, which looks completely normal to me based off your OL EQ tables.

If you want to prove it is commanding what the tables are, set all your gains and blend factor to 1, set your OL EQ ratios to one value and see if it logs what you are commanding.

When warmed up, is it rich all the time or only at idle? Does it get closer to commanded when you have some RPMs in it? Have you tried putting it in MAF only mode, pulling some air from the MAF table and seeing if it changes your error?

[marksrig]

Hi Cadillac,
I would want the EQ-AEM(my wideband) to follow EQ Commanded when in OL. In the log you can see the EQ AEM goes stoich and the EQ Commanded is still wanting rich. It should follow the EQ Commanded.

The VVE and MAF are calibrated to pump 93 with little error.

[07GTS]

i dont worry much if ethanol goes to stoich quick on cold starts as it runs fine and helps it heat up faster, or if u just want all the commanded v actual to equal up then u have to mess around with the temp related tables alot to get them all inline, OL IVT tables and charge temp bias table affect it, also injector data must be spot on

[marksrig]

i dont worry much if ethanol goes to stoich quick on cold starts as it runs fine and helps it heat up faster, or if u just want all the commanded v actual to equal up then u have to mess around with the temp related tables alot to get them all inline, OL IVT tables and charge temp bias table affect it, also injector data must be spot on

Thanks 07gts,

I would like it to follow, but it's not absolutely necessary. It's just one of those things that I dont understand why and would like to solve if it's an easy table I'm missing.

Do you have any idea on my 2nd question which is at full warm up in closed loop? Pump and E60 run great in CL, but the E will be rich a ton if I force into OL with the "Vehicle Controls & Special Functions" button. Pump is within 3% if I force OL the same way.

[07GTS]

i think if ur on petrol and dialed in and u got to full 85% ethanol and the fueling changes id look at injector data, on my ls2 when i went flex i could sit idle on petrol and fill it with ethanol and watch it adjust and it stays within a few percent the whole time, either flow rate or offsets may need a tweak

[marksrig]

I just saw something that might help my 2nd issue of the E60 being rich at normal op temps.
I saw in the open loop a BLEND FACTOR and checked with another tune in my repository. It was using this blend which seems a 1:1 ratio. I'll try it the next dry day and get back with the results.

BLEND.JPG

[07GTS]

yea that will shift it between the petrol and ethanol OL tables so should help command more if the ethanol is asking for it, also check the transient blend and spark blend tables also as not all are populated if u have added the flex

[marksrig]

yea that will shift it between the petrol and ethanol OL tables so should help command more if the ethanol is asking for it, also check the transient blend and spark blend tables also as not all are populated if u have added the flex

Transients are stock but I do have spark values in the alcohol table. I'm not sure the BLEND will help in this situation. As you can see in my first post log, the Flex during warm OL is rich, not lean. I guess I'll see.

Thanks for the reply