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Thread: Wideband through EGR

  1. #1
    Tuner Lucky13MN's Avatar
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    Wideband through EGR

    I'm pretty new to tuning and recently had the opportunity to get a wideband 02, I've heard this is an awesome way to fine tune your vehicle. I own a 2001 Silverado with the 5.3L motor with the Z06 cam.

    I've done my searching but have only found partial answers (at least to my newbie skills). Now, before you think 'this guy just wants us to do the work for him' I should note early on in this post that there is an attachment showing my attempt.

    What I am wondering is if someone would mind posting a step by step how-to on making this work.

    So far the best I have found is this:

    MECHAM:
    1. open the scanner - from the shortcut itself..not by a log file
    2. right click the table...insert
    3. a box will pop up..go to User Defined at the bottom..expand
    4. click the Configure User Defined
    5. another box appears...go the first undefined (should be #4)
    6. on the right in the name box call it whatever - MY A/F
    7. in the bottom field under function paste this - ([PID.2811]/.5)+10

    PID.2811 is the EGR position in volts
    now im not sure what a LC1 sensor uses for A/F calc but for my PLX it was the above calculation. there is a thread somewhere here that tells u what your calc should be.

    8. close the box

    you should be back at the table...

    right click delete the Fuel Trim Cell
    right click Insert
    User Defined
    Click that custom PID you just made

    start logging...

    That I can handle... but then it's followed by:

    Keith@HPTuners:
    You need to define its sensor as air fuel ratio. That is very important.

    You also need to insert EGR volts into the table display as well. It is not critical to insert your custom pid in the table display. If you define it as an air fuel ratio sensor, the chart and histograms will work properly for all references to afr.

    So I guess what I need is a continuance on the 8, 9 and 10 lol.

    Just seems there is part of the info everywhere and updates to things that would work better, this is where I get lost... I guess I am just looking for that one post that has it all.

    Thank you in advance to anyone who wants to tackle this.

    I would like to use my EGR to run the Wideband through, and the Wideband will be an AEM UEGO.

    Attached is my attempt at it based on my understanding of the above just to show I 'am' trying.

    Lucky
    Last edited by Lucky13MN; 12-19-2006 at 09:26 AM.
    2001 Silverado Z71 4x4
    5.3 with Stock 4L60E
    Z06 Cam, S&B Intake, JBA Headers, Magnaflow Cats, Corsa Cat Back, LS1 Fans, Tuned with HP Tuners.
    Current Best: 14.92 @ 93mph

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner
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    Man finally a question you stumped me with! I got your email, but custom PIDs are not my fav thing in the world! I am logging through the enhanced version so I have never had to deal with this. There are a bunch of guys on here who have though, just sit tight and they will get ya goin.
    2009 Silverado Crew Cab 5.3L, stock.

  3. #3
    Tuner Lucky13MN's Avatar
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    Haha, finally stumped the master

    BTW, your tuning with VERY slight modifications got me a 14.92 yesterday! For some reason after I installed the headers the knock went away... guessing it was false knock, but I don't know why the headers changed it.
    2001 Silverado Z71 4x4
    5.3 with Stock 4L60E
    Z06 Cam, S&B Intake, JBA Headers, Magnaflow Cats, Corsa Cat Back, LS1 Fans, Tuned with HP Tuners.
    Current Best: 14.92 @ 93mph

  4. #4
    Tuner Lucky13MN's Avatar
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    [Sound of Birds Chirping]

    2001 Silverado Z71 4x4
    5.3 with Stock 4L60E
    Z06 Cam, S&B Intake, JBA Headers, Magnaflow Cats, Corsa Cat Back, LS1 Fans, Tuned with HP Tuners.
    Current Best: 14.92 @ 93mph

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    OK, lemme see if I can help. You're almost there. There is no need to add your custom PID to the table but you do need to add the EGR. So follow steps 1-8 to create the custom PID but don't bother adding it in the table as a PID to log, just add the EGR PID/Sensor.

    Your equation is correct, particularly for an AEM. If you find that the gauge and HPT differ you should add or subtract from the 10. I ended up adding 9.8 instead of 10. Here is how you derive the equation that you see in the thumbnail:

    volts / (voltage range/Device range) + (Minimum value of device range)=AFR

    This breaks down as follows:
    Volts = Incoming voltage reading, typically between 0-5 VDC.
    Voltage Range = Range of sensor, typically 5
    Device Range = Range of AFR that your instrument is set to read. For example if you setup your LC-1 to read 10-20 AFR, then the range would be 10, the AEM's range is 10-20.
    Minimum device range = Lowest AFR reading of device. In the example above it is 10.

    Using the numbers above, the formula would read as follows:
    EGR volts/(5/10)+10
    or
    volts/(.5) +10 <--play with the 10 value to get HPT to jive with the gauge or logworks.


    You don't need to add the custom PID to the table, just the PID or sensor that the custom PID formula uses. When you create your custom PID, be sure to add the units to it. See the JPG I have attached for my custom PID. The only difference is that I am using the AC pressure instead of the EGR because I don't have an EGR. Note in the background I am logging AC Pressure in the table.

    HTH!
    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 12-31-2007 at 10:00 AM.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  6. #6
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    Part Deux:

    Now that you have your custom PID created it's time to use it with some custom histograms. So click on Histograms, then the tool icon to the right of the #8 histogram. o down to histogram 8. We're going to create a histogram to plot the actual AFR measured by the wide band and plot it against the VE table. Reference the first attached pic for what this looks like. Click on "Table" under the X Axis and double click "Primary VE VS: RPM VS: MAP. Then click on PID in the upper right, expand user defined and double click your custom PID (mine is called AEM AC WB). Note how the units automatically turn to AFR if your custom PID is configured for that. You can define the high and low values to determine how colored the cells will be in the histogram using the plot coloring.

    *EDIT 5/19/11* 2.22 did not recognize user defined PIDs as AFR meters but 2.23 does so there is no need to create your own AFR Error user defined PID anymore. The built in AFR Error will recognize your user defined WB PID as long as it is defined as an air fuel ratio sensor. So the below paragraph is now moot.
    Gets a little trickier now but stay with me. Now we want to be able to plot % AFR error against the VE and MAF table. To do this we need a % AFR Error PID. There is one built into HPT but it does not use your custom WB PID so we need to create a custom AFR % Error PID. So go back to table view, insert, expand user defined, double click "configure user defined" (this is a weird way to get here I know but it's how it is done). See second attached thumbnail for this equation. You will need to replace my PID.7101 (AC Pressure) with your EGR PID #. SENS.121 is the commanded AFR. No need to add this new PID to the table either, one of the commonly logged values already contains the commanded AFR but I can't remember which.

    Now we can create histograms to plot the AFR Error against the VE and MAF tables so we can actually do something. Back to histograms, config button, choose a histogram # that you're not using. Lets do AFR Error against VE so same as before go to the X-Axis table and select Primary VE VS RPM VS MAP and then click on PID and choose your custom AFR % Error PID. Should look like the third thumbnail. Also note how I used plot filtering to filter out AFRs greater than 17 so I don't plot any data logged when in decel.

    Now we need a % AFR histogram for the MAF table (assuming you are not using speed density). Choose another histogram # you're not using and under the X-Axis Table choose MAF Airflow VS: Output Frequency. The 4th thumbnail has it but it says output (high) because I am now tuning an LS2 with low and hight MAF tables. Ignore the plot filtering too unless you have an LS2. Select your AFR Error custom PID and click commit changes.

    You should be set at this point. You just need to start logging. You will need to put the car in open loop to use the wide band or the stock O2's will be getting in the way and you will get nowhere. Also disable the MAF to tune the VE. Plenty of other threads on that stuff.
    Last edited by 5_Liter_Eater; 05-19-2011 at 10:28 AM.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  7. #7
    Tuner Lucky13MN's Avatar
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    Man, you rock... thank you SO much, I really appreciate the help and step by steps (with screenshots).

    Now that I've read it I'm going to try it.

    Ok, here it is... I 'think' I got it

    Last edited by Lucky13MN; 12-21-2006 at 09:30 AM.
    2001 Silverado Z71 4x4
    5.3 with Stock 4L60E
    Z06 Cam, S&B Intake, JBA Headers, Magnaflow Cats, Corsa Cat Back, LS1 Fans, Tuned with HP Tuners.
    Current Best: 14.92 @ 93mph

  8. #8
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    I'm having problem seeing the screenshots. Could you enter in the functions for screen shot 2?
    2002 6.6 TR6060 ZO6 (520Whp)
    2014 Audi S7 (730whp)

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    (([pid.7101]/.5+9.8)-[sens.121])/[sens.121]*100
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  10. #10
    Tuner in Training fjungman1's Avatar
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    Won't work

    I have followed this thread and several others discussing WB through EGR and carefully researched my PCM.

    I fired it up and it doesn't work, but the faux narrow-band signal is working, so the LC-1 is probably fine (details here: http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17718)

    I am running the 2bar SD enhancement and have set the EGR enable/disable speeds to zero. They were at 8/6 and that did not work, either. I do not have a disable/enable button for EGR in HPTuners.

    What am I missing? The symptoms seem to be that the PCM is not reading the EGR values. I am using the PID.2811 (from this thread). Is this PID dependent on the car? This one is a 2004 SSr. I can post more information when I get home, like PCM part numbers, if that would help.

    Thanks!
    Frank in San Diego
    2007 Cobalt SS 2.4L Auto
    2004 SSr 5.3L Auto
    2001 Express 2500 5.7L Vortec Auto
    1997 Aston Martin DB7 3.2L I6 Blown (EEC-V) 4L80E
    1994 Caprice Wagon LT4, HotCam, Headers, Big MAF
    1989 G20 305cui TBI
    1961 Caddy 383 SBC, Port Injected, DIS ignition
    The others don't have computers...

  11. #11
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    How is it 'not working' exactly? Are you logging EGR Volts in the table? If so is it changing with AFR?
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game

  12. #12
    Tuner in Training fjungman1's Avatar
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    Sorry, to be more specific, the EGR volts always reads 0.
    I inserted it into the Table Display, using PID List -> Engine -> Emissions -> EGR Position (V)
    I see only zero in the table and chart displays.
    Frank in San Diego
    2007 Cobalt SS 2.4L Auto
    2004 SSr 5.3L Auto
    2001 Express 2500 5.7L Vortec Auto
    1997 Aston Martin DB7 3.2L I6 Blown (EEC-V) 4L80E
    1994 Caprice Wagon LT4, HotCam, Headers, Big MAF
    1989 G20 305cui TBI
    1961 Caddy 383 SBC, Port Injected, DIS ignition
    The others don't have computers...

  13. #13
    Make sure EGR is enabled otherwise it wont record therefore giving you zeros
    Look under Engine->General->EGR Enabled
    2002 Camaro Z28
    236/236/0.590"/0.590"/112 lsa cam
    Longtube Headers, True Dual w/ X Pipe
    Air Lid, Filter, Ported Maf End, Bellows Hose

  14. #14
    Tuner in Training fjungman1's Avatar
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    I don't have that option (see attached).

    Also, my PCM is 12583660 (HW) and 12586242 (Service). This is the same as the Holden VZ.

    From GM High-Tech Performance:
    The service codes for '03-'07 include 12576106, 12586243, 12586242, 12583560, 12583561, and 12589463. These PCMs are interchangeable, with a complete re-flash of the appropriate operating system. Thanks to its fast processor and large memory, this PCM is considered the optimal choice for LS1 transplants.

    I should be safe having used pins 55 and 41 on connector C1 (blue), right?
    Last edited by fjungman1; 04-30-2008 at 12:39 AM.
    Frank in San Diego
    2007 Cobalt SS 2.4L Auto
    2004 SSr 5.3L Auto
    2001 Express 2500 5.7L Vortec Auto
    1997 Aston Martin DB7 3.2L I6 Blown (EEC-V) 4L80E
    1994 Caprice Wagon LT4, HotCam, Headers, Big MAF
    1989 G20 305cui TBI
    1961 Caddy 383 SBC, Port Injected, DIS ignition
    The others don't have computers...

  15. #15
    Potential Tuner
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    step1: call my friend rodney and ask him.


    sorry bro, my buddy walked me through mine. if nobody gets to it before me, ill do what i can to get with him, sit him down, make him stop yelling at me (hes angry btw......), and write up a step by step how to. either im no good with this search function, or the user friendly how-tos are sparse around here.

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training fjungman1's Avatar
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    I have not figured it out yet. Next step will be pulling the PCM back out and measuring the voltage from the WB at the PCM pins. That is a long-shot, as I checked them as I put it together, but I've run out of ideas.

    Anyone have any thoughts?
    Frank in San Diego
    2007 Cobalt SS 2.4L Auto
    2004 SSr 5.3L Auto
    2001 Express 2500 5.7L Vortec Auto
    1997 Aston Martin DB7 3.2L I6 Blown (EEC-V) 4L80E
    1994 Caprice Wagon LT4, HotCam, Headers, Big MAF
    1989 G20 305cui TBI
    1961 Caddy 383 SBC, Port Injected, DIS ignition
    The others don't have computers...

  17. #17
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    Can a C5 use the AC Pressure input on the PCM? Any easy write ups on how to wire it? It seems like this would save having to buy the upgraded cable.

  18. #18
    Tuner in Training fjungman1's Avatar
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    Frank in San Diego
    2007 Cobalt SS 2.4L Auto
    2004 SSr 5.3L Auto
    2001 Express 2500 5.7L Vortec Auto
    1997 Aston Martin DB7 3.2L I6 Blown (EEC-V) 4L80E
    1994 Caprice Wagon LT4, HotCam, Headers, Big MAF
    1989 G20 305cui TBI
    1961 Caddy 383 SBC, Port Injected, DIS ignition
    The others don't have computers...

  19. #19
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    gota question, im trying to open the .cfg files and im getting an error:
    unable to parse log, and on the background screen, it makes it to 2421 of 2427.. any idea on what the deal is. im trying to get this solid before i start on the wiring. its the plx controller and a bosch lsu 4.2. thanks
    clint

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner 5_Liter_Eater's Avatar
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    I'm not at a laptop with HPT right now but I would start from a fresh config. Add the proper PIDs, set up the user defined PIDs and set up the histos from scratch.
    Bill Winters

    Former owner/builder/tuner of the FarmVette
    Out of the LSx tuning game