turbo LQ4 help

[kingtal0n]

You can chase "gains" all day long by most of these are not justifiable.

Injector data "gains"?

Injector data and phase adjustment can yield as much as 15 to 20% increased power.

For example here I believe they picked up around 70hp on a 400 to 500 rwhp setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fvjGBg8En4



Not sure what "gains" you are talking about but I thought it worth mentioning, injector data and phase for best performance 'gains' is a significant gain worth 'chasing'.

[tyeler18]

Injector data "gains"?

Injector data and phase adjustment can yield as much as 15 to 20% increased power.

For example here I believe they picked up around 70hp on a 400 to 500 rwhp setup.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_fvjGBg8En4



Not sure what "gains" you are talking about but I thought it worth mentioning, injector data and phase for best performance 'gains' is a significant gain worth 'chasing'.

Where did I say anything about injector data? Dial in is always important, overcomplicating what can be a simple system is what isn't worth it. This is why you're banned from half the forums on the internet. You spew useless information that no one's asked for then try to pick arguments by attempting to nit pick at information that isn't there.

[kingtal0n]

Where did I say anything about injector data? Dial in is always important, overcomplicating what can be a simple system is what isn't worth it. This is why you're banned from half the forums on the internet. You spew useless information that no one's asked for then try to pick arguments by attempting to nit pick at information that isn't there.

What forum am I banned from? Also, what sort of overcomplication are you talking about? I Only recommended that he use a Referenced Regulator which is exactly what you are using, so uh... We recommended the same thing? WTF are you even talking about

[tyeler18]

What forum am I banned from? Also, what sort of overcomplication are you talking about? I Only recommended that he use a Referenced Regulator which is exactly what you are using, so uh... We recommended the same thing? WTF are you even talking about

We could start with LS1tech?

You do realize that a stock truck regulator isn't a 1:1 reference regulator right? I might see 60psi at 14lbs of boost with a stock LS1 vacuum regulator. It might as well be static, which you've already posted a whole rant on why that doesnt work.

Now again, where did I reference you at all in any posts? You picked out my post probably because the shoe fits and tried to nit pick an argument out just as you do in every one of your posts. I didn't ask for information on injector data or phasing, didn't say a word about it. Didn't need any either, yet here we are. So WTF are YOU even talking about?

[kingtal0n]

We could start with LS1tech?

You do realize that a stock truck regulator isn't a 1:1 reference regulator right? I might see 60psi at 14lbs of boost with a stock LS1 vacuum regulator. It might as well be static, which you've already posted a whole rant on why that doesnt work.

Now again, where did I reference you at all in any posts? You picked out my post probably because the shoe fits and tried to nit pick an argument out just as you do in every one of your posts. I didn't ask for information on injector data or phasing, didn't say a word about it. Didn't need any either, yet here we are. So WTF are YOU even talking about?

Thanks for responding.

First, you said the word "gains" which generally means power gains. You did not specify what type of gains which is YOUR mistake. If not power gains, then what type of gains did you mean when you said 'gains'? I responded because of your ambiguous-ambiguity of the word 'gains', which could mean anything. I wished for clarification, as does everybody reading since nobody can read your mind to figure out what you mean by gains.

I assumed you meant power gains. If not, then what type of gains?


Next, Injector phase was never mentioned, and it is very important (to power gains), and you agree with this sentiment already. Therefore, we both agree It is absolutely relative, related, and essential to mention in this thread, since op is using new injectors and dealing with the injector data.

A conundrum. You claimed,

You spew useless information

And then back that up with

Dial in is always important,

So, which is it? Did I spew useless information, or did I suggest Dial in which is always important?


Finally, all regulators with references are 1:1. There is no other type of regulator. If you see less than 1:1 rise it means your fuel pressure is dropping lol. Good 1.

[kingtal0n]

https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...-boost-517069/
https://www.performancetrucks.net/fo...9/#post5096042

But when it boost, will the fuel pressure increase beyond 58psi?

Yep!! 10psi boost and mine is at 70psi

All factory referenced regulators are 1:1 , for every vehicle, ever produced in the world. Including all turbo cars which use 1:1 referenced regulators.

By design, if the regulator can 1:1 with vacuum it will 1:1 in boost, unless some modification is made to the surface area where boost pressure is applied (Like a external wastegate which uses a different area for exhaust pressure than boost pressure to achieve a non linear relationship).

For factory applications this is never done to my knowledge, and if it was, it would be more than 1:1 not less.

[tyeler18]

Once again a paragraph of nothing other than a work out for my scroll on the mouse and your fingers. My regulator must be broken because it barely sees 60psi at WOT and 14lbs of boost, and has always been that way. Hasn't effected my tuning any since it's tuned like a static regulator and still had no issue making 615/670 on 9lbs of boost, unknown at 14lbs. So again, are you offering any useful insight to the thread at hand or are you here to argue? I'm not here to flex my useless information, just real world practical application to the question at hand. I don't know why you feel you need to act like the smartest person in the room every post you have here, but i can assure you that if you feel that need to- you're not. I really see no reason to continue this discussion with zero relevance to the topic at hand. If I wanted a lecture on engine theory I'd go sleep through another ME lecture in college.

[kingtal0n]

My regulator must be broken because it barely sees 60psi at WOT and 14lbs of boost, and has always been that way. Hasn't effected my tuning

I am not picking on you but there is some issue you need to investigate here.
The first is that you do not know or understand what your regulator is doing or supposed to do. Maybe the regulator is bad, 'stuck'. Which means it could 'unstuck' itself at any time and start working again. A malfunctioning piece of equipment in the fuel system, is not a good idea to ignore.
Likewise it may be that your fuel pressure is dropping due to flow demand.
At this point neither you nor I have any idea what the problem is: stuck regulator, or dropping fuel pressure? Neither is something to ignore and tune around.
It may also be a bad fuel pressure gauge. Have you ever seen it rise above say 60psi? Maybe the true pressure is higher but the gauge is wrong.

It isn't your fault, it isn't an argument. I am not attacking you. I am only saying what any good diagnostician would say: Be sure your fuel system equipment is working as intended, fully functional. Test it, or replace it, do something. Don't just leave it and wait for something bad to happen.

any since it's tuned like a static regulator and still had no issue making 615/670 on 9lbs of boost, unknown at 14lbs. So again, are you offering any useful insight to the thread at hand or are you here to argue?

Here is some useful insight that you may or may not be aware of already, but which certainly pertains (relevant) to the topic of fuel

-All typical factory turbo vehicles use rising 1:1 boost reference regulators.
-You want the rising 1:1 reference to get the most from the fuel injectors when using boost
-Rising rate 1:1 reference allows injectors to run lower duty cycle during boost, which allows fuel injectors and injector drivers to run cooler and more efficiently.
-Using fuel pressure 1:1 reference causes reduced fuel pressure at idle, which makes idle tuning easier when using large injectors which have difficulty at low pulse widths.
-Using fuel pressure 1:1 reference causes reduced fuel pressure at idle and cruise, which will extend the life of fuel pump and fuel system components.
-There is no systemic drawback using 1:1 reference fuel regulator. It is considered highly desirable for forced induction applications.

All of that is relevant to the discussion of fuel system setup, I'm sure of it.

I'm not here to flex my useless information,

Hmm. I challenge you to find one piece of useless information which I have posted in any technical forum related to car diagnostics discussion.
If you can find one, anywhere, I may just delete my account and stop posting on all internet forums.

just real world practical application to the question at hand. I don't know why you feel you need to act like the smartest person in the room every post

I walk into sliding glass doors and trip on invisible twigs. This isn't about being smart. Its about real-world practical knowledge, as you stated.

You pretend I have no real world practical application knowledge? Then I must defend myself. This is not a boast or brag, merely in defense to your statement.
Most of this thread is me, defending myself. You do not know me, you make some bold assumptions, as many do. But they are wrong.

My Real world:
I've tuned hundreds of vehicles, almost every kind of turbo variant available including 1.8L, 2L, 2.4L, 2.5L, 2.6L, 3.0L, etc...
I've tuned every kind of stand-alone computer and written software to automatically tune a vehicle, and that was 20 years ago.
I show real-world practical application in my build thread (signature link) for every detail I encounter. High Success rate is evident.
I've the necessary education, including the degree you state(ME), as well as extra degrees in biological science, chemistry, mathematics, PhD and MS level engineering, control theory, fluids, mechanics of materials.

Although I cannot be the smartest person in the world, it is difficult to match my combination of experience, education, and practical application. There is no higher education available, there is no stand-alone computer I can not tune, there is no turbo application & engine configuration I am not familiar with.
Specifically, for turbocharged, reliability applications, I've seen it all, done everything there is to do with that.
There is art to squeezing 240,000 miles from a typical turbo engine producing ~200hp/liter with factory internals and I've got a cookie cutter formula for it.

I really see no reason to continue this discussion with zero relevance to the topic at hand.

The topic of fuel injector phase & referenced regulators is absolutely relevant to the topic at hand. I don't know why you say otherwise since we are discussing fuel systems and fuel injectors. There is more to the art of controlling an injector and setting up fuel system parameters than just 'I tuned it and it works for now'.

[blindsquirrel]

He has fun doing this, and the more he gets corrected or people point out that his individual facts may be technically true in isolation they do not apply to the situation under discussion, the more he likes it. Whether he does this because he's mentally unbalanced or because he's intentionally trolling, the effect on the discussion is the same and there is only one proper remedy for it.

[dhoagland]

He has fun doing this, and the more he gets corrected or people point out that his individual facts may be technically true in isolation they do not apply to the situation under discussion, the more he likes it. Whether he does this because he's mentally unbalanced or because he's intentionally trolling, the effect on the discussion is the same and there is only one proper remedy for it.

Unbelievable.

[kingtal0n]

sanity check guys, this topic has been debated before on the internet, a LOT. Here is some more popular individuals weighing in their thoughts...



https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ml#post8866697

When ever possilbe you wan to run the lowest Base fuel pressure possilbe, this will help keep the fuel cool and the pump happy. You may wan to go with larger injectors.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ml#post8867985

You CAN tune around a constant fuel pressure, but it becomes more and more of a problem at higher boost levels. An extreme example would be a base fuel pressure of 65psi, but a boost pressure of 40psi. That only leaves a fuel pressure delta of 25psi to feed a monster motor. The less boost you run, the less this would be an issue.

Hey look we both used 40psi of boost as an example in a practical application! Impossible XD

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ml#post8930762

Boost referencing to the intake mainfold will lower the idle pressure to below the base (vac line off) regulator setting to approx. -.5psi per inch of vacuum. This can help idle quality with large injectors. This setup is standard with the LT1 cars & they should use this method for ease of tuning.

https://ls1tech.com/forums/forced-in...ml#post8863503

a referenced regulator keeps the pressure delta across the injector constant, which FOR ME makes sense and allows me to pull pressure away in vacuum which helps my big injectors putt around town without getting into 0-1% duty territory

So lets recap. LOWER fuel temperature. REDUCE The stress on fuel pump and "make it happy". EASIER to tune idle and low rpm conditions. REDUCE Injector duty which keeps the driver board and injectors cooler, "happy".

There are MANY BENEFITS to reference regulators. Blind is either trolling me or pretending I am the only one saying these things, which clearly I am not the only one. You've ever seen a driver board burnt up from continuous 90% duty cycle? You ever see an injector seize, locked up from getting hot at 90% duty cycle?

You want a reference and a large injector.

[mrcanby]

While I post on performance forums,

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1599316990

Some will say 'genius' which of course is ridiculous. Many thousands of scientists study and develop therapeutic treatment for cancer (I have a grant from the NIH) and they are not called genius. It is simply the exposed population isn't used to seeing such unusual ideas, I think.
I am not banned for being unusual.
Like with anything, there are haters. "Enemies make you stronger, friends weaker" where did I hear that.


I frequently build setups for random engines out on paper and tune ECU that I've never seen before, such as HPtuners in my car.
I won't tune an engine that doesn't meet my standard procedure, which is a cookie cutter recipe for 200,000 miles of reliability derived from experience and observations over 20 years.

et al,
All ECU use the same basic functions, trigger systems, inputs & outputs, tuning methodology never changes between ECU. They are all the same plus or minus features which have nothing to do with basic necessity for operation.

Control theory fills the gap between software, setup of hardware and explains responses from the hardware, and can be used to dial in the ideal response. Even when the hardware or software is inadequate, as the engineer you are able to develop circuits and software which can work between pieces of hardware as a stand-alone deal if necessary, which means any signal is fair game for reconstruction or reproduction with modification. There is no piece of hardware or output from any ECU That I cannot alter to suit my needs, because the combustion engine is so very simple in operation (it does not need electronics at all to operate) there is no ceiling or skill cap penalty for not being familiar with every piece of hardware ever invented, you simply understand the signals and amplifier and clock cycle nature of the unit as a theoretical entity capable of interpreting signals and outputting necessary ones as a response.

Finally, unraveling or understanding every OEM system and it's features at a molecular level, being able to explain phenomena that nobody at the hobby level has considered or even noticed, or that it is very rare to notice some feature or explain some long-term result or consequence of disabling those systems which seem unimportant as PCV. This combination of experience and education, cannot be replaced by either of itself, as I was additionally able to examine around a thousand import engines or so over the course of 5 years and draw conclusions from that experience that typical hobby level will never manifest. In particular, I noticed many 220,000km 3.0L turbo engines 2jz-gte arriving here in America looking brand new yet, glistening compressor wheels, golden tone oil, super clean smelling great. Every one of those engines had intact OEM air filter systems and a factory PCV system. It was an observation which led me down a pathway to vacuum pump crankcase scavenging research, and many years later after fluid mechanics I was able to 'see' the pressure differential applied to crankcase volume via air filter pathway as playing a critical role in engine longevity. The 600 and 700rwhp 3L engines downstream of 220,000km lived another 10 years or longer, lost track of.

This guy is so full of him self, he's just talking to him self. There is no talking to a guy like this. Just avoid.

[fixit]

just stumbled across this.. old post
thank you for the updated SEP 1500 xls.. i'm going to try it..

[smokeshow]

He has fun doing this, and the more he gets corrected or people point out that his individual facts may be technically true in isolation they do not apply to the situation under discussion, the more he likes it. Whether he does this because he's mentally unbalanced or because he's intentionally trolling, the effect on the discussion is the same and there is only one proper remedy for it.

Amazing thread, would read again.