need feedback as to whether or not this log is normal

[Chaseknight]

this is my first time with tuning efi I've recently had theses problems with my o2 sensors I've now got them both reading but I don't know at what it is supposed read at or during different conditions and loads (idle vs. cruising and anywhere in-between) i know it wont help WOT but i want to know why this truck runsgood at an idle and then at cruising throttle its allright probably just a litttle tune clean up i figure will fix that but when i get on the throttle any more then probably 33% it just starts popping adding fuel and it just wont accelerate and sometimes will have to be coasted till i can restart it again and it starts up fine . now ive got the ltft turned off open loop turned on and it accelerates ok sluggish but then after it has a pull it still seems like it loads up with fuel and is just about to die and sometimes will, again ill cycle the key and it will start right back up but off throttle in the second scan it runs real + stft and this is with the sensors that i know are good the first log is with the one bad it ran +25% ltft on b1s1 maybe it has some useful data aswell
can anyone give me any feed back
anyone seen anything like this

I've got a 90 model chevy with a 2001 6.0 with getrag/muncie 5speed 99 0411 pcm it has the standard operating system and longtube headers
logs ; 6.0 manual first good drive with o2.hpl log 1.hpl
tune file

[5FDP]

What is your fuel pressure?

Do you have any exhaust leaks by the o2 sensor and is the exhaust complete?


Both of your VE tables are really low compared to a stock tune. Find a 2000 6.0 file from the tune repository and copy the VE table data over.

If you are running the 2001 fuel injectors you must change that data too. This tune is from a 1999 truck with a 5.3 and the injector data is for the 1999 ONLY 5.3 injectors which are too small for a 6.0. So if they are stock 6.0 injectors, copy that data over from the 2000 truck file as well.

I am talking about a 2000 truck file because only 1999-2000's run a Primary and Secondary VE table like your computer has, so you need that file to copy the data from. And 2000 and 2001 6.0 files are nearly the same for the most part.

Fix those two major things and see how it runs afters. So long as you have no other problems with exhaust leaks and fuel pressure.

[Chaseknight]

Thanks brother, I?ll get back to you on fuel pressure and apply the other tune for injectors and ve tables

[Chaseknight]

alright no fuel pressure data till tomorrow so bare with me brother but i have from the tune repository found a 2000 6.0 with manual tune I've got a few samples some from the way it was in the initial run logs but i need to make a point before i talk about them. I had forgotten before i ran those other logs the pin 63 of the blue connector wasn't hooked to the low signal for the 02 sensors so the last two logs will be with this pin 63 wire hooked to both the tan low signal wires from the o2s b1 and b2 in a junction sauldered together and the ltft master enabled in the tune where as in the first log(s) the master ltft is disabled and the pin 63 isnt connected
the tunes will also be both listed so you can compare them

[5FDP]

You missed two data points for the injectors. The min injector pulse and the short pulse adder need to be corrected still. I am assuming this has the 6.0 injectors being that you said it's a 2001 6.0 engine. Would be best to verify the part number too just to triple check them.


Also the secondary VE table didn't get copied over.

If that stuff checks out and you have good fuel pressure with no vacuum leaks or exhaust leaks it should run pretty good. Just adding long tube headers isn't a lot of mods and if the exhaust is complete it won't make it extremely lean like the data log shows.

The only other thing the data log showed me was that it reported a cylinder 5 misfire and that you have a knock sensor code. The knock sensor code will cause it yank away a bunch of timing and power though under heavy load. That can be seen when the knock retard channel maxes out at 8 degrees in the logs.

[Chaseknight]

alright 5FDP i have corrected all the 5.3 parameters to the 6.0's parameters. basically A segment swap. i just looked up the 2001 6.0 silverado in the tune repository compared and copy/paste all the differences to my tune then i found exactly what upstream o2 sensors went with my computer from the 99 5.3 silverado they are hooked up and respond great my fuel pressure is 50 psi at idle and raises to 60-65 psi when i give it throttle lets off to 40 psi when i really whack it and let off instantly. it seems to rap god when sitting in park but in gear part throttle after 3000-3500 it loads up wants to bog down and if i mash the gas it knock retards like 8-10deg still and the stft and ltft trims are still maxing out sorta

i installed new spark plugs aswell cause i figured that was where all the misfires where coming from on the scanner

[kevin87turbot]

alright 5FDP i have corrected all the 5.3 parameters to the 6.0's parameters. basically A segment swap. i just looked up the 2001 6.0 silverado in the tune repository compared and copy/paste all the differences to my tune then i found exactly what upstream o2 sensors went with my computer from the 99 5.3 silverado they are hooked up and respond great my fuel pressure is 50 psi at idle and raises to 60-65 psi when i give it throttle lets off to 40 psi when i really whack it and let off instantly. it seems to rap god when sitting in park but in gear part throttle after 3000-3500 it loads up wants to bog down and if i mash the gas it knock retards like 8-10deg still and the stft and ltft trims are still maxing out sorta

i installed new spark plugs aswell cause i figured that was where all the misfires where coming from on the scanner

It appears to be very lean still.
What is the 8 digit part number on the injector?
Do you have a full exhaust system?

[Chaseknight]

yes still very lean
injector part number:25317628
yes full exhaust

[5FDP]

Might even be a good idea to smoke test the engine for leaks.

[kevin87turbot]

I'd try disabling the MAF and see if it fixes this lean issue.
Try this SD tune file.6.0 manual tune with hp tuners reconmndations KW Mod.hpt

[Chaseknight]

well kevin87turbot the modifications do help quite a bit as afar as drivability and lean/rich problem i may have been having atlest i think so it drives a lot better accelerates a lot better but still has some knock retard coming from somewhere but I'm also getting a code for bank 1 knock sensor low voltage could this cause the knock retard?
these are all the codes together
0x10: P0650 - Malfunction Indicator Light Control Circuit (Current, History)
0x10: P0102 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit Low (Pending, Current, History)
0x10: P0103 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High (Current, History)
0x10: P0327 - Knock Sensor 1 Circuit Low (Bank1) (SES, Pending, Current, History)
0x10: P0463 - Fuel Level Sensor A Circuit High (Pending, Current, History)
0x10: P1637 - Generator L-Terminal Circuit (Pending, History)
and here is a couple scanner log that I've got from yesterday 11/26 and 11/27

[5FDP]

Yes, the knock code causes it to pull a ton of timing. I said that a few post ago.

[Chaseknight]

i wonder where i should start trying to fix that problem

[Chaseknight]

where might I start on fixing the knock sensor code I'm getting and the stft on the b2 is know going way up and only some of the time.
any ways since it is running better in what I a assume is SD mode I am going to try and run it this away you guys have any pointers for tuning in SD I am fixing to search the gm gen 3 forum for all that I can read thanks ahead. I am eventually going to get an aem or daytona sensors analog afr guage for the cam swap but for right now do you guys have any pointers for tuning in SD with what I got this here bone stock 6.0.

[5FDP]

Did you replace the knock sensors or harness when you installed the engine?

Usually that is what fixes the codes. Rarely does it not fix it and in those cases just turning off the code will stop the timing pull and the sensors still functions with it off.

If one bank is still lean then I'd suspect a vacuum leak on that side or an exhaust leak near the o2 sensor.

[blindsquirrel]

i wonder where i should start trying to fix that problem

Service manual diagnostic for DTC P0327 maybe?

[Chaseknight]

I see says the blind man talking to his deaf daughter on the disconnected telephone!!
I appreciate the help guys I?m going to keep on sorting it out I?ll post when I have some more questions again I appreciate the help I love the support I get from everybody and it has made up tuners a truly gratifying experience even though I?ve not successfully tuned my engine yet

[kevin87turbot]

Load this revised file, and you'll also need to connect your MAF...or at least install an LS1 air temp sensor. Since your current air temp sensor is integrated into your MAF, it will default to -38 degrees air temp if it is disconnected. That will certainly affect the tune.

6.0 manual tune with hp tuners reconmndations KW Mod 2.hpt

[Chaseknight]

Would you agree that this is a good way retune fuel trims
i had to set the maf fail frequency to 0 from 1 that you had because the dtc p0103 wasnt on but the p0102
was now that ive done the change from 1 to 0 it doesnt have p0102. is this a problem? was it a wrong move?
Would you agree that this is a good way retune fuel trims

Quote : LTFT TUNING ?
A. In the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine Diagnostics>General>MAF Sensor Fail Frequency = 0. This will set a P0103 code and turn on the SES light. Ensure that the P0103 DTC is enabled and you are seeing P0103 in the DTC list. Don?t worry about the DTC at this time.
B. In the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Spark Advance>Main Spark vs. Airflow vs. RPM Open Throttle/Moving. Copy the High Octane table to the Low Octane table. The computer reverts to the low octane table when a MAF failure is indicated, this will assure optimal timing.*
C. Start the VCM scanner>Histogram display. File>Connect. Then Tools>VCM Controls>Fuel & Spark>Fuel Trim Learn>Reset Fuel Trims. *
D. Changes to the LTFT?s do not take effect immediately ? the PCM requires about 50 minutes or roughly 100 miles to allow for the PCM to relearn the fuel curve. Try not to enter PE mode while driving and logging for this procedure. Log about 30 minutes of driving at many different speeds and conditions. Try to hit as many cells in the histogram as possible. Stop logging and save the log. Do NOT turn off the engine until the log is saved or it will be lost. Go to VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT's. Open the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE and select Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP. *
E. The goal is to get ALL LTFT?s between -5 and +5. Positive LTFT's indicate fuel is being added because of a lean condition. Richen this cell by increasing the VE table value by the amount of the LTFT value. The operation is opposite for negative LTFT's.*
If LTFT = (4), VE cell value is 67, result would be (67)+(4)=71 - increasing the VE, which is adding fuel. If the LTFT was (-4), the result would be (67)+(-4)=63, decreasing VE and thus reducing fuel. To decrease LTFT values, a smaller number or number closer to zero, ADD the difference between the positive LTFT value and zero to the corresponding cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. To increase a LTFT value, a larger number or number farther away from zero, SUBTRACT the difference between the LTFT value and zero and SUBTRACT from the corresponding cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. For example, In the VCM Scanner>Histogram display, the (.8, 40) cell, 800 RPM's and 40 kPa, is 4. To bring the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT cell (.8, 4.0) DOWN to 0 from 4 ADD 4 to the (.8, 4.0) cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. If the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT cell (2.0, 30) is -10, SUBTRACT 10 from the (2000, 30) cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table to bring it UP to 0. This will not work out exactly but will be VERY CLOSE.
F. Repeat steps D-F until ALL values in the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT are between -5 and +5. *Try to complete this on the same day for best results as LTFT values can vary +-4% per day. *
G. Once all values are between -5 and +5, look at the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP>3D Surface graph. If the 3D Surface graph looks choppy, click on polynomial smoothing ONCE. This will smooth out the table values and provide a crisper throttle response. The table can also be hand smoothed using the 3D graph. Look for spikes in the table and increase/decrease the cells around the spike, creating a smooth table. Now rescan, and go back to step E. *

[kevin87turbot]

Would you agree that this is a good way retune fuel trims
i had to set the maf fail frequency to 0 from 1 that you had because the dtc p0103 wasnt on but the p0102
was now that ive done the change from 1 to 0 it doesnt have p0102. is this a problem? was it a wrong move?
0 or 1 on the MAF fail freq won't matter. You were getting the P0102 because the MAF was disconnected. With either a 0 or a 1 in the fail freq, once you start the engine, it'll show a P0103 DTC
Would you agree that this is a good way retune fuel trims

Quote : LTFT TUNING ?
A. In the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine Diagnostics>General>MAF Sensor Fail Frequency = 0. This will set a P0103 code and turn on the SES light. Ensure that the P0103 DTC is enabled and you are seeing P0103 in the DTC list. Don?t worry about the DTC at this time.
B. In the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Spark Advance>Main Spark vs. Airflow vs. RPM Open Throttle/Moving. Copy the High Octane table to the Low Octane table. The computer reverts to the low octane table when a MAF failure is indicated, this will assure optimal timing.*
C. Start the VCM scanner>Histogram display. File>Connect. Then Tools>VCM Controls>Fuel & Spark>Fuel Trim Learn>Reset Fuel Trims. *
D. Changes to the LTFT?s do not take effect immediately ? the PCM requires about 50 minutes or roughly 100 miles to allow for the PCM to relearn the fuel curve. Try not to enter PE mode while driving and logging for this procedure. Log about 30 minutes of driving at many different speeds and conditions. Try to hit as many cells in the histogram as possible. Stop logging and save the log. Do NOT turn off the engine until the log is saved or it will be lost. Go to VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT's. Open the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE and select Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP. *
E. The goal is to get ALL LTFT?s between -5 and +5. Positive LTFT's indicate fuel is being added because of a lean condition. Richen this cell by increasing the VE table value by the amount of the LTFT value. The operation is opposite for negative LTFT's.*
If LTFT = (4), VE cell value is 67, result would be (67)+(4)=71 - increasing the VE, which is adding fuel. If the LTFT was (-4), the result would be (67)+(-4)=63, decreasing VE and thus reducing fuel. To decrease LTFT values, a smaller number or number closer to zero, ADD the difference between the positive LTFT value and zero to the corresponding cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. To increase a LTFT value, a larger number or number farther away from zero, SUBTRACT the difference between the LTFT value and zero and SUBTRACT from the corresponding cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. For example, In the VCM Scanner>Histogram display, the (.8, 40) cell, 800 RPM's and 40 kPa, is 4. To bring the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT cell (.8, 4.0) DOWN to 0 from 4 ADD 4 to the (.8, 4.0) cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table. If the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT cell (2.0, 30) is -10, SUBTRACT 10 from the (2000, 30) cell in the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP table to bring it UP to 0. This will not work out exactly but will be VERY CLOSE.
F. Repeat steps D-F until ALL values in the VCM Scanner>Histogram display>LTFT are between -5 and +5. *Try to complete this on the same day for best results as LTFT values can vary +-4% per day. *
G. Once all values are between -5 and +5, look at the VCM Editor>Edit>Engine>Airflow>Main VE>Primary VE vs. RPM vs. MAP>3D Surface graph. If the 3D Surface graph looks choppy, click on polynomial smoothing ONCE. This will smooth out the table values and provide a crisper throttle response. The table can also be hand smoothed using the 3D graph. Look for spikes in the table and increase/decrease the cells around the spike, creating a smooth table. Now rescan, and go back to step E. *

Those are good generic tuning steps. In your application, you have two VE tables. You can use the steps above and make the modifications suggested, but you'll need to make sure that both VE tables match. Or, you could simply apply the Speed Density 1 bar Operating System and it'll eliminate the secondary VE table. That's the route that I'd take. Be sure the use the Write Entire option if you convert it to the SD 1 bar OS.