help with eoit tuning

[applejuice540]

so I have been reading for hours now about eoit, and when I feel I am starting to understand it I get thrown off from the math from the examples other people are showing. I have a gen 4 e38 caprice PPV 6.0 with a tsp stage 2 cam I will post cam specs at the end. in one example I saw the stock cam had -29 degrees of overlap and the new cam had +2 degrees of overlap which meant the valve was opening 19 degrees sooner than stock(I don't understand how they came to this number). I am also looking for the dsteck calculator many are talking about I am only able to find dead links, but I am unable to search in the forum currently the search button is over the human verification button. I am able to find a lot of info on gen 3 eoit timing but not a lot on the 4th gen could someone help me with the math side of how much sooner my cam opens. below is the example I am referring to

https://g8nation.com/showthread.php?t=40975

my cam specs are

tsp stage 2
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 229?/244?
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.629 in./0.615 in.
Lobe Separation 112?
overlap 12.5?

stock cam
Duration @ .050 in. (int./exh.) 196?/208?
Valve Lift (int./exh.) 0.478 in./0.466 in.
Lobe Separation 116?
overlap -30?

[dhoagland]

I know there is a thread here somewhere that has a simpler calculator, but I can't find it (it also had some really complex ones)..

This does work, but it took me sometime playing with it...
I'll keep looking

I just ran my Cam (from my cam card) through the Cam Math and it matched perfectly
Then I ran the numbers you posted and they appear correct

[applejuice540]

thanks

[dhoagland]

Post up your current tune and I'll play with the calculator with your numbers...
Does your Cam card give the duration with @.006 specs too? (I don't think it that critical)

[07GTS]

with the gen 4 eoit just zero out the normal rpm table, set the boundary to all 520 if it isnt already, then the normal ect lower the 110 value until ur trims go richer, usually i dont like to go lower then 80 as u dont want to wait too long, then u know where ur at should help with idle and all low to mid drivability will have to check fueling and correct a little again if u have already done that

[applejuice540]

Post up your current tune and I'll play with the calculator with your numbers...
Does your Cam card give the duration with @.006 specs too? (I don't think it that critical)

it does not give them with 0.06 specs but her is my tune filestock timing plus 2 degrees maf tuning 1.hpt

[applejuice540]

with the gen 4 eoit just zero out the normal rpm table, set the boundary to all 520 if it isnt already, then the normal ect lower the 110 value until ur trims go richer, usually i dont like to go lower then 80 as u dont want to wait too long, then u know where ur at should help with idle and all low to mid drivability will have to check fueling and correct a little again if u have already done that

thank you! is it a good idea to hook back up the wideband for this or will stft be fine?

[dhoagland]

it does not give them with 0.06 specs but her is my tune filestock timing plus 2 degrees maf tuning 1.hpt

Did you set the injector off time to zero?
Table [ECM 45524]

[applejuice540]

Did you set the injector off time to zero?
Table [ECM 45524]

that is the way it was stock i just compared and it hasn't been changed

[dhoagland]

Did you set the injector off time to zero?
Table [ECM 45524]

Do you have it running and idling somewhat stable to be able to log injector pulse width?
(assuming you want to play with calculator... 07GTS knows what he is doing and I'm sure his advice will get you where you need to be)

[applejuice540]

Do you have it running and idling somewhat stable to be able to log injector pulse width?
(assuming you want to play with calculator... 07GTS knows what he is doing and I'm sure his advice will get you where you need to be)

yes i still want to play with the table and was actually going to try both methods but i do have e 85 in it right now I can still log it, but I currently have e 85 in at the moment (I would think this would change fuel pulse width but honestly im not sure) I can look and see if i have any logs.

edit: I guess I haven't ever logged pulse width I'm still learning everything

[dhoagland]

yes i still want to play with the table and was actually going to try both methods but i do have e 85 in it right now I can still log it, but I currently have e 85 in at the moment (I would think this would change fuel pulse width but honestly im not sure) I can look and see if i have any logs.

Good point
I have e30 right now. I'm going to look at a log (if I can find it) with E-0 and see the difference

[applejuice540]

fuel pulse width.hplfuel pulse width.hpl
Okay here is a quick log looks like I have 58% ethanol i tried doing a few different things to see pulse width at different driving styles

[dhoagland]

I notice your tune said MAF Tuning, but I don't see you logging MAF hz to create an error log (I don't see a wideband either)
I did look at VVE error and you are lean

If the above is true I would set the injector boundaries back to stock, dial AFR, then attack EOIT

[applejuice540]

i just didn't change the name after going back to regular i was doing maf tuning that was just the most recent one i had I have a wideband just not on this run I have just been replacing the o2 sensor with my wideband and when i log separately everything is within 3 either way but when combined maf and ve it shows lean I had someone take a look and told me it was normal to show lean after tuning maf and ve I haven't had any knock issues and it runs great but I definitely see what you are saying. ill run this e 85 through and double check everything with regular gas.

[07GTS]

yes u can use the STFT if u want at idle or WB just lower it until it goes richer and stop when it stops and then take out the excess fuel so its back to good then see what its like also will have to do that for the cruise driving also, ethanol will just have a longer PW to account for so if u set it up foe e85 then when on petrol its less pulse so will easily fit in the same adjustments to eoit, as mentioned dial in fuel first so u can then see a change from the eoit just so u know where ur going and not chasing tails

[dhoagland]

Curious

Have you verified your Ethanol content vs what your sensor is reading?
Mine is 5% off at E-0 and about 3% up to E40 (or so)...

Anyway what I did was adjust my stoich table to command 14.6 when ethanol sensor read 5% and 14.1 when it reads 15%...

So if you use Lambda with your wideband and dial your AFR then switch back to blended mode with your narrow bands and your Stoic table is off you will see a difference
Most likely a very small error that amounts to nothing

[applejuice540]

I have not ever verified ethanol content. I guess I Could buy a tester but now that I think about it I haven't ever looked too much Into the e85 fueling side other than At wot but it's been at 1 ish lambda when I glance down at it while driving normal I had someone look it over and said everything looked good but I'm definitely not saying it is I'm still learning how all this works

[dhoagland]

I have not ever verified ethanol content. I guess I Could buy a tester but now that I think about it I haven't ever looked too much Into the e85 fueling side other than At wot but it's been at 1 ish lambda when I glance down at it while driving normal I had someone look it over and said everything looked good but I'm definitely not saying it is I'm still learning how all this works

I'm still learning too.
I've only had my e85 for a few months. I like to verify everything so thats why I tested it and noticed the minor difference.
But I do know that if people Tune with a wideband in Lambda, then switch back to o2's and their Stoich table is still set to 14.6 there will be a difference. Thats why I wanted to verify my reading with E-0 then again at E-85 (or whatever I can get, I'm told the best you will get from a pump is E75)...
I'm comfortable enough with it now to try the max ethanol I can get and see how the sensor compares... It might be nuts on up high and 5% off down low, which isn't nothing..

[07GTS]

ethanol percent is a set stoich for the burn so should be left as is stoich table, if ur having to adjust that then its prob more so injector data is off a smidge