Sanity Check on 4L60e settings

[sci85]

Hello gurus,

I'm running a cammed 2000 5.3L Gen3 + 4L60e + 3500 stall installed by a PO. I'm trying to actually reduce the firmness of the 1>2 shift, especially when cold, as it feels way too firm and I'm concerned the current settings may be hurting the trans. This isn't a drag racer but it is a street driven toy I occasionally have some fun with if that makes sense. Anyway, I'm a complete noobie when it comes to tuning but have been reading and comparing tunes to try and learn. I have no idea if the trans was rebuilt or beefed up but I suspect it wasn't.

I can see comparing against a stock tune a lot of changes had been done to the transmission parameters. Can someone sanity check my settings and let me know if what was done is sane or are they really hard for a street driven transmission? I really want to reduce some of the firmness in my shifts, especially the 1>2. Would you simply reduce the shift pressure tables or is there a lot more to it than that?

Thanks so much for helping me out.

[13qtr]

I'm no expert, but I do have a 4l60 behind a 427 stroker and nitrous, that lives. Only real thing I saw was the 'desired shift times'. I'd put .300 in the section normal shift times, in the 280 and under. For 320 and up, I'd go to .200. You could go as low as .100 in the upper parts. I think I have .350 in my lower torque areas, but I have a beefed up trans with all the goodies, so it already has a shift kit.

[blindsquirrel]

I would not disable all the trans-side torque management like that even on a built unit with all the goodies in it. Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction only pulls timing during the shift and is a really slick way to soften the shift and at the same time keep from burning it up. The less torque the engine is delivering when a shift happens, the longer the trans will live.

If it's 'built', it should not need the pressures raised like that. If it's not, it isn't going to live long with the TM disabled.

[sci85]

Thanks for the input. So turn torque management on and adjust the shift times. I pulled the Torque Management values from a stock tune and followed 13qtr's suggestions for shift times. I wondered why those shift times were so low...How do these look?
TorqueReductionSettings.PNGAdjustedShiftTimes.PNG

[kevin87turbot]

I would put the Normal shift pressure curve back to stock on the 1-2 shift. I'll put a pic of the stock curve below. Keep the 2-3 shift pressure higher than stock. That high gear clutch pack needs it.
Just like Blindsquirrel indicated, you can also integrate some trans TM back into the tune. It'll soften the shift as well.
I would also put the shift times to .250s across the board.
One other change that I typically do is to go to the Trans Diag Tab and Disable the Max Line pressure DTC's for P0101, P0102 and P0103. If your MAF is disconnected, these will cause it to max the transmission line pressure. You don't want that to happen.

HPTunersShiftPressure.jpg

[sci85]

Ok, I made the suggested changes given. If the changes shown look good, I'll load it and take her for a test drive and do some logging. Really appreciate the input!AdjustedShiftTimesv2.PNGBasePressureAdjustments.PNGDisableTransDiags.PNG

[blindsquirrel]

Hey kevin...

If 12840 & 12878 are zeroed out, does that act like a 'global disable' for all spark TM everywhere, even on the trans side?

[sci85]

I would not disable all the trans-side torque management like that even on a built unit with all the goodies in it. Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction only pulls timing during the shift and is a really slick way to soften the shift and at the same time keep from burning it up. The less torque the engine is delivering when a shift happens, the longer the trans will live.

If it's 'built', it should not need the pressures raised like that. If it's not, it isn't going to live long with the TM disabled.

Ok I changed the shift pressures and shift times and it feels a ton better. Thank you guys!

What would you suggest for the Torque Reduction settings if any? Right now they are all zeroed...

TorqueReductionSettings.PNG

[kevin87turbot]

Hey kevin...

If 12840 & 12878 are zeroed out, does that act like a 'global disable' for all spark TM everywhere, even on the trans side?

You're exactly right. I didn't even notice that on his tune. Good catch!

[kevin87turbot]

Ok I changed the shift pressures and shift times and it feels a ton better. Thank you guys!

What would you suggest for the Torque Reduction settings if any? Right now they are all zeroed...

TorqueReductionSettings.PNG

Put tables 12840 and 12878 back to stock.

I do things a little different from many tuners. I'm actually ok with leaving the TM zero'd on the 1-2 shift. However, it certainly will live longer by having TM on the 2-3 shift.

I'll attach a stock file if you want to take a look at one.2000silverado53Lbeigestock.hpt

[sci85]

Yeah the PO’s tune seemed like he really didn’t care much about the trans life lol. I’ll make those changes as well. Thanks guys. Really helpful!

[blindsquirrel]

You're exactly right. I didn't even notice that on his tune. Good catch!

To be clear, that was a genuine question I wasn't sure about, not a sly attempt to poke you about anything.

[sci85]

That was a good catch! Right now I still have that table zero'd but plan to dig deeper into those values. Right now, with the updated timing and shift pressures, it's feeling a lot more sane. I'm not sure yet if I actually need any torque reduction since the stall converter is so high it's slipping a lot at low rpm/low throttle anyway but will be doing some more logging with the above changes.

[49 hoopty]

I would put the Normal shift pressure curve back to stock on the 1-2 shift. I'll put a pic of the stock curve below. Keep the 2-3 shift pressure higher than stock. That high gear clutch pack needs it.
Just like Blindsquirrel indicated, you can also integrate some trans TM back into the tune. It'll soften the shift as well.
I would also put the shift times to .250s across the board.
One other change that I typically do is to go to the Trans Diag Tab and Disable the Max Line pressure DTC's for P0101, P0102 and P0103. If your MAF is disconnected, these will cause it to max the transmission line pressure. You don't want that to happen.

HPTunersShiftPressure.jpg

I did that configuration on my tranny that had no tm either. I don't know if it was adding the tm, or lowering the shift times. After i took it for a drive my 1-2 was horribly harsh under low throttle, and that 5 seconds of 15 degrees retard for a shift was horrible. I raised up my lower table 1-2 shift times starting at .480 and going down and took away alot of the tm and drives way smoother now.

[blindsquirrel]

I did that configuration on my tranny that had no tm either. I don't know if it was adding the tm, or lowering the shift times. After i took it for a drive my 1-2 was horribly harsh under low throttle, and that 5 seconds of 15 degrees retard for a shift was horrible. I raised up my lower table 1-2 shift times starting at .480 and going down and took away alot of the tm and drives way smoother now.

It's not supposed to do that. Mine is pulling 90% on TM, it drops to -19* at the shift, and if the timer in the scanner can be believed the timing pull lasts for only 380 milliseconds start to finish. Shift timing is .250 across the board. ETA: 'Time of latest shift' consistently reports around .300 for the 1-2.

screenshot.15-03-2022 14.32.13.png
LH6.hpl

[49 hoopty]

It's not supposed to do that. Mine is pulling 90% on TM, it drops to -19* at the shift, and if the timer in the scanner can be believed the timing pull lasts for only 380 milliseconds start to finish. Shift timing is .250 across the board. ETA: 'Time of latest shift' consistently reports around .300 for the 1-2.

screenshot.15-03-2022 14.32.13.png
LH6.hpl

I am not sure why mine is. i actually used what you said to do. It would be great it if was .380 start to finish. If you were anywhere around me all you hear from my exhaust is my lose power when it retards. Then it would shift. then would be about 3 more seconds fighting the retard then you would hear it drive normal when the timing recovered. I finally logged it today watching all the advance if it was something else. It is only tm retarding the timing but its only 5 degrees now its not so noticeable. This second tune is what was giving me 5 secs of 15 degrees retard and really bad 1-2 shift at low throttle. Like so hard felt like it was gonna break something. the first tune is what i have right now saying tm reduced without the harsh 1-2 and all that retard. It only does about 5 degrees now. If you can figure out why my tm was lasting 5 secs i could use it again, but as of now i want no part of that. I will show a log with tm fully engaged from the first tune so you can see. I looked at it again and i guess i exagerated the 5 secs of retard. Its a little over 3 but when your driving it feels forever.

Attachment 118421
Attachment 118422
Attachment 118422

[kingtal0n]

Hmmm I wonder if the high stall is confusing the ECU into thinking the shift didn't happen because the RPM drop is too low at low speeds.

I've often wondered how the ECU knows when the shift is about to happen or when its finished. The transmission is commanded to shift but the hydraulic components all need to move first which takes time, and then the shift actually happens. So between the command, and actual shift, there is a unknown delay based on fluid pressure and orifice diameters.... but the ECU somehow knows the exact moment when it occurs somehow nevertheless. Or seems to.

Just thinking outloud and in for results here. Figure this out so I can learn stuff kthx

[blindsquirrel]

I am not sure why mine is. i actually used what you said to do. It would be great it if was .380 start to finish. If you were anywhere around me all you hear from my exhaust is my lose power when it retards. Then it would shift. then would be about 3 more seconds fighting the retard then you would hear it drive normal when the timing recovered. I finally logged it today watching all the advance if it was something else. It is only tm retarding the timing but its only 5 degrees now its not so noticeable. This second tune is what was giving me 5 secs of 15 degrees retard and really bad 1-2 shift at low throttle. Like so hard felt like it was gonna break something. the first tune is what i have right now saying tm reduced without the harsh 1-2 and all that retard. It only does about 5 degrees now. If you can figure out why my tm was lasting 5 secs i could use it again, but as of now i want no part of that. I will show a log with tm fully engaged from the first tune so you can see. I looked at it again and i guess i exagerated the 5 secs of retard. Its a little over 3 but when your driving it feels forever.

This table works backwards from how you have it. Do you really think a stock tune will make zero ft-lb in all those cells where it has zeros?

screenshot.16-03-2022 08.55.57.png

[49 hoopty]

This table works backwards from how you have it. Do you really think a stock tune will make zero ft-lb in all those cells where it has zeros?

screenshot.16-03-2022 08.55.57.png

Im not sure what your trying to say. I have tried to look up exactly what desired torque really does and have not found anything. So your saying this is why its staying retarded for so long with tm on?

King pretty sure the ecm knows that the shift has happened. i have a pressure guage that i watch. I can always tell from it when its about to shift. I will see it gain about 70psi right before a shift then see the shift happen and the psi go back to normal. then there is a couple secs of retard still happening after that.

[blindsquirrel]

I dunno. How much does it cost to change it back and see what happens?

I'd put all the Abuse Mode stuff back to stock too, but then again I'm a boring square who doesn't do sweet WOT neutral drops.