VE tuning w/o ltft

[Turbo2gnx]

good day crew. my vehicle is seeing more fuel than needed, i think! cold startups of fuel flow 12.43 lbs/hr and air flow of 2lb/min. it takes awhile for it too stop misfires and idel ok around 1.58 lbs/min and fuel flow 5.65 lbs/hr. how to get those numbers from startup? also how to VE tune without ltft? also how far should my ltft o2's be from the stft os's with a x mid pipes and lt headers?

[tmanplanet]

you need your fuel trims both short and long to be +/- 10% a 0 would be perfect but inside of +/- 5% is realistic with a variable change of 1 - 2 % +/- between banks and weather. The engine needs the extra fueling to create the spark in the cold, as long as u didnt change injector pulse width that it should stay okay with stock settings.

[Turbo2gnx]

you need your fuel trims both short and long to be +/- 10% a 0 would be perfect but inside of +/- 5% is realistic with a variable change of 1 - 2 % +/- between banks and weather. The engine needs the extra fueling to create the spark in the cold, as long as u didnt change injector pulse width that it should stay okay with stock settings.

appreciate your reply.the car has lt headers and only using the upstream o2's and the downstream o2's bung is located about 3 inches from the upstream. i dont feel that there could be much of a difference between either to gather any useful data without cats, or am i wrong? the extra fuel is at idel and was told that i needed to look at the VE tables to deal with the extra fuel at idle but im reading you need both sets of o2's do do so. any other way to tune VE w/o downstream o2's or will that second set of o2's be far enough to be useful in tuning?

[tmanplanet]

Dont know how to type it all but there are a couple basic videos that show how to set up the scanner to use the ltft + stft math to show the values,... i set one up it wasnt hard and i couldn't quite figure out what to do with the data = numbers/percentages, because i havent use that yet. but we would rather have u using wideband o2 sensors but yes at least one sensor will be sufficient if placed in the exhaust stream. basically yes u can tune your mopar with just 2 o2's

[tmanplanet]

i chagned my set up and it required a big jump to get the trims right, mainly i found disabling the COT overtemp "0" enrichment helped a ton because the ecu thinks it going to get to hot or something. they sell this hp tuner like anyone can do it and im a pretty big gear head and even did some areospace stuff but its capable of doing alot so its in depth and not easy but u can do almost anything with hp tuners within the pcm's. anyways zeroing out the COT table should help a bunch

[Turbo2gnx]

i chagned my set up and it required a big jump to get the trims right, mainly i found disabling the COT overtemp "0" enrichment helped a ton because the ecu thinks it going to get to hot or something. they sell this hp tuner like anyone can do it and im a pretty big gear head and even did some areospace stuff but its capable of doing alot so its in depth and not easy but u can do almost anything with hp tuners within the pcm's. anyways zeroing out the COT table should help a bunch

Again thanks for the help! the COT are all 0's i had a WB but while tuning the sensor must have burned out during the time the ignition was on during tuning? soon i will replace it with a new one. ive looked for videos on VE tuning and only found ones that are using both up and downstream o2's. if you know of a link on how to tune the VE with just upstream o2's that would be appreciated!

[tmanplanet]

after doing some research, its basically the same but different... i can not find videos either but i have talked about this with alot of different people and it is deff a thing.

[Turbo2gnx]

after doing some research, its basically the same but different... i can not find videos either but i have talked about this with alot of different people and it is deff a thing.

thanks for replying! would you have any links to some info other than our forums on this? havent seen much, goatrope and reckless has some good videos but again not much on this. any info is appreciated!

[tmanplanet]

Never was notified you replied, sorry for the late reply but you set up the data logging the same but without the ltft sensors and only log steady acceleration and it would be preferred on the dyno. I discussed all this with others tuners and they said the short term tuning should have some inefficiencies if logged when decelerating so a dyno or a long stretch of road while manually running 3rd gear.

[PurpleRam]

You need to set up the car to run in open loop, Log Total VE in both banks. , it take a while to get it right and depending on how "radical" the cam is you can get it to under 5% , just have to remember that in Open Loop , your short term trims are no none existence, and your long term will jump around a lot in part Throttle operations.

[tmanplanet]

Yeah, open loop just uses the upstream sensors i remember them saying something like that lol and hope would i go about setting that up. Max out LT delay time and some of those things to start im sure

[CHARLZ1FORD]

on the same note ive been following reckless for tuning advise as well as goat rope but i have not got a clear answer on how to smooth the VE table is it ok to just smooth it even though it will most likely be adding and subtracting all over the place

[LilSick]

gotta grab it by the corners and give it a shake

cock it a lil that way and see if it likes it

if not cock it the other

[CHARLZ1FORD]

Screenshot (18).png

this is what i have so far after about a week of data logging and tuning it only adds or subtracts around 2 or 3

[CHARLZ1FORD]

i know it looks like crap that's what I'm trying to fix.

[LilSick]

i adjusted my ve t stat some first because my car doesnt run at 203-210 anymore

its steady 180 (179-183 tbh) but reads 185 so it might be off a lil?

tweaked the intake air factor and scaling too cuz i live by the beach at its always 60-80 degrees. I didn't touch the multiplier on that one tho

[tmanplanet]

It starts at 52 or something but nah those numbers don?t look too bad. You might need extra in the like .90 plus area under 4000 rpm so you don?t change any srv rpm levels.

You changing what not for running lower temps. This helps?

[LilSick]

You changing what not for running lower temps...

This helps?

well this is testing thurs afternoon/evening 4-9pm

[LilSick]

Race day 5.07.png
and that ^^^ is yesterday race day 10-2pm

My car is slow. It is a stock 392 that i bracket race. Need (2) things to win those. A consistent car is one of them

[PurpleRam]

Reaction time is a bracket racer’s 2nd best friend