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Thread: Where is the timing going?

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Where is the timing going?



    Guess the log is too long, it will not upload.

    E85 tune
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by coanan; 05-08-2022 at 12:21 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    Last edited by SultanHassanMasTuning; 05-08-2022 at 04:03 PM.
    Follow @MASTUNING visit www.mastuned.com
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  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SultanHassanMasTuning View Post
    Thank you. I'll report back


    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley

    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.75 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85

    FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans kit, SHR valve body
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  4. #4
    Advanced Tuner N2speed's Avatar
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    what are the IATs at?


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    Diablosport CMR | HP Tuners

  5. #5
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by N2speed View Post
    what are the IATs at?
    In pic. 124
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  6. #6
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    Log all of your spark timing modifiers such as coolant, IAT and baro advance to make sure those are not pulling any timing.

  7. #7
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaasExp View Post
    Log all of your spark timing modifiers such as coolant, IAT and baro advance to make sure those are not pulling any timing.
    Will do, thanks
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  8. #8
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Needed to put together. I need to start making more targeted logs so I can upload them. Mine are too long.


    Last edited by coanan; 05-10-2022 at 12:32 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  9. #9
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Watching Richard Holdener on YouTube.

    He plays around with timing, fuel, and boost on the engine dyno.

    5 degrees lower cost about hundred HP. Quite substantial.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  10. #10
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    A log of the issue would really help here.

    Is the Sensed MAP = 195kPA clipped by the sensor or the ECU? Eg does it ever go over this value or just flatlines?

    Not that it helps your issue but why are your WOT spark tables only scaled to 1335mg aircharge when you are exceeding that in your screenshot (1.4268g = 1426.8mg)

  11. #11
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaasExp View Post
    A log of the issue would really help here.

    Is the Sensed MAP = 195kPA clipped by the sensor or the ECU? Eg does it ever go over this value or just flatlines?

    Not that it helps your issue but why are your WOT spark tables only scaled to 1335mg aircharge when you are exceeding that in your screenshot (1.4268g = 1426.8mg)
    All good questions.. Couple others asked the same question when they seen the tune and log.

    It was at Demon P for tuning. Those things should have been addressed before or during tuning though. Not sure why they were not.
    Tuning was cut short because it was breaking belts on dyno, (pulley combo) and the smoothboost wasn't pulling bypass closed. Smoothboost fixed, still testing pulley combos, think that will be resolved tomorrow, had a 2" idler pulley made for tensioner.

    MAP was set to max 195kpa in diag. Sultan brought that to my attention, fixed.

    Scaling hasn't been fixed yet. Fumanchu 182 brought that to my attention. Still trying to figure out how to work that out.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  12. #12
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    2" tensioner pulley on. Needed more clearance with the 18% OD balancer on.



    Ready for a test dyno run to make sure belt stays on.

    Rescaled the WOT timing table Aircharge to 1.54, hope that helps.

    Think I finally have the Smoothboost bypass controller working as good as the Trackhawk.
    Took some time, trial and error, making changes in driver demand and TB airflow tables.

    Is there any power to be had with VVT on or is it just too much for tuning and not worth it?
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  13. #13
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Monday 3PM for dyno testing.

    How does one increase fuel to A bank in open loop? Bank two seems a little leaner.

    Last edited by coanan; 05-13-2022 at 05:58 PM.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  14. #14
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    I have the same question. 2004 silverado with a 6.0 swap, small truck cam, 243 heads, long tube headers and three inch exhaust. i have logged my timing but my log only shows rughly 3-4 degrees of retard but my final timing is sometimes 20-30 degrees less then commanded making enything beyond 70-75% throttle flatten. it is a p59. thanks ahead of time guys

  15. #15
    Senior Tuner SultanHassanMasTuning's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tuffy282000 View Post
    I have the same question. 2004 silverado with a 6.0 swap, small truck cam, 243 heads, long tube headers and three inch exhaust. i have logged my timing but my log only shows rughly 3-4 degrees of retard but my final timing is sometimes 20-30 degrees less then commanded making enything beyond 70-75% throttle flatten. it is a p59. thanks ahead of time guys
    very different controller, but there is burst and NON-PE timing sometimes removes from your target
    Follow @MASTUNING visit www.mastuned.com
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    Contact/Whatsapp +966555366161

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by coanan View Post
    Monday 3PM for dyno testing.

    How does one increase fuel to A bank in open loop? Bank two seems a little leaner.
    Increase the VE for that particular bank

  17. #17
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Well, the only good thing from dyno was, belt didn't break and Smoothboost worked great.

    Tune was a fail. For what ever reason the eng was breaking up, like hitting rev limiter at 5500. Don't think the dyno was loading at all, RPMs just flew like the drum was free wheeling. Guy said it was going lean and made some changes to fuel mass.

    He made couple more pulls, said he seen 14.5 psi, but as RPM climbed boost level was dropping along with other airflow stuff. I believe he said throttle voltage was staying at wide open. Boost controller is tied into throttle and that stayed full closed. Didn't see anything like belt dust from slipping. Don't know if I'll ever find a tuner to get this right.

    Are there things in the 5.7 PCM that can't be changed or scaled? Like changing displacement screws with other stuff not related.
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  18. #18
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Log from 2nd dyno pull. All just weird.

    Not sure if you can load channels I used.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp

  19. #19
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    Just had a quick look at you log are there are a few weird things going on:
    As soon as you hit a PR of 2.00 the driver demanded torque plummets but the actual TB stays open. Then for some reason the injector PW drops out big time.
    Then it recovers and the vicious cycle repeats over. Its happening at only ~3800rpm in this log.

    Do you have the actual tune file from this dyno run/log?

  20. #20
    Advanced Tuner coanan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HaasExp View Post
    Just had a quick look at you log are there are a few weird things going on:
    As soon as you hit a PR of 2.00 the driver demanded torque plummets but the actual TB stays open. Then for some reason the injector PW drops out big time.
    Then it recovers and the vicious cycle repeats over. Its happening at only ~3800rpm in this log.

    Do you have the actual tune file from this dyno run/log?
    Thanks for looking. believe this was the one, there were some changes on another.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    2018 Trackhawk PCM/TCM tune by Dusterhoff.
    Flex Fuel, MMX faux 95mm TB, GripTec 2.85, 10% ATI lower, FIC1200, ARH 1 7/8 w/cats, 180 T-stat

    13 Chrysler 300S, RAM BGE 412 stroker, cam motion 232/246 619/619 118 +4, ATI 18% OD pulley
    Whipple Gen5 3.0, 2.50 upper pulley, Smooth Boost controller, FIC 1200 inj. Nick W 108mm TB, FORE dual return fuel system, E85, FTI 2800 stall(SRT83380), SHR WAR Viking trans and valve body, Getrag 3.73, 1 7/8 kooks w/hi-flow cats, 3" Magnaflow Cat-back 943rwhp