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Thread: Suddenly running lean at WOT

  1. #1
    Tuner in Training
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    Suddenly running lean at WOT

    Hi guys

    So I had the car emailed tuned and the tuners have been great to help me get the car right. So the car was running great, at WOT my wideband would show 13.2-13.5 at the max but averaged at 12.8. I drove the car to work and everything was fine. Once I got off work I started driving the car home and the car was running extremely lean. When I first start it the car will idle at about 20-22 AFR but the Short term Fuel Trims will eventually go to 25+ and make the car idle at 15-16 AFR. At WOT the car runs at 14-15 which obviously isn't right. It started doing it out of nowhere. I took off the intake and changed the gaskets, changed the gaskets on the TB, and when through all the lines on the intake. I can't see where there is a leak. I also checked the intake for cracks when I had it off. I also tested the wideband with brake clean and it went from full lean to full rich and its working perfectly fine. I can't find anything wrong. The only thing I can figure is the problem is the injectors suddenly gave out on a couple cylinders (stock LS3 injectors), I got bad gas, or the O2 sensors are going bad but they aren't throwing a light. I don't have misfires or check engine lights. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I tried attaching a log but the attachment window won't upload a log file. I'll keep trying to upload one. Let me say that the tune shouldn't be the issue because it was running fine before and nothing was changed, the tuners have been great. I might try to send them a log but in my opinion its not their responsibility to diagnose my car for me. Here is the tune file. 5.5.22.hpt
    Last edited by SBECamaro; 05-17-2022 at 06:37 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    My head goes to fuel pressure if it's just suddenly lean like that.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

    If you don't post your tune and logs when you have questions you aren't helping yourself.

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5FDP View Post
    My head goes to fuel pressure if it's just suddenly lean like that.
    I would agree, put a fuel pressure gauge on it and see what it says. I just picked up a decent one from Harbor Freight for about $50. Lucky for you this is happening at idle so you can debug this while in the garage without driving it around. It makes the trouble shooting that much more of a pain.

  4. #4
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    My log is showing great fuel pressure, even at WOT. Is it possible that is still low?
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.

  5. #5
    Tuning Addict blindsquirrel's Avatar
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    The fuel pressure PID is not real. Put a gauge on it.

  6. #6
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    Great, I just bought a gauge from Hawks that will screw into the factory schrader valve. Thanks for the advice guys. I'm going to try swapping the injectors from the passenger side onto the drivers side and see if that makes a difference until my gauge gets here since my wideband is on the drivers side.
    Last edited by SBECamaro; 05-18-2022 at 10:23 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.

  7. #7
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    Swapping the injectors didn't help so I think I can rule that out. I had just filled the car up with gas that morning which makes me think its the gas but there is no knocking according to the log so I guess I'll wait for the gauge to see if its the fuel pump and go from there. If the fuel pump is ok then I don't what else it could be besides an intake.

    Back to the gas, what is funny to me is the pump I was at had the e15 (blue) handle bagged, but the e85 (yellow) and the e10 (87, 89, 93) handles were still open. I'm wondering if something screwy could've happened there. Having extra ethanol in my fuel could definitely explain the lean condition without knock.
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.

  8. #8
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    So I decided to test the gas today. Its impossible to get a tube down the filler neck so i just pulled it from the rail. Turns out I got 80% ethanol. I'm 100% positive I didn't grab the yellow handle, its on the complete opposite side of the pump. Now I just have to try and get my money back from Sheetz because a full tank of 93 isn't cheap anymore. I bet I'll have fun with that one. I measured it in a graduated cylinder first and got 80% then I transferred it to the mason jar so its easier to see since my graduated cylinder isn't completely see through. Now the struggle of draining the tank.

    IMG_9569.JPG
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.

  9. #9
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    Injector Offset vs INJ Tip Temp table is zeroed out. Thats probably your issue.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by danmw2003 View Post
    Injector Offset vs INJ Tip Temp table is zeroed out. Thats probably your issue.
    That's what the tuners had it at. I'm guessing since we were constantly reflashing the car. I'll leave it, they said its fine.
    Last edited by SBECamaro; 05-20-2022 at 09:57 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3/M6 : CAI, 2" TSP Longtubes, offroad extensions, TSP F-35 Cam 235/248 .649"/615" 111 LSA, BTR .660 Springs and Retainers, NGK TR6 plugs.