2019 Mustang 5.0 twin turbo VCT tuning but can't get OP

[Zapo]

I am working from a knowledge base of tuning my last car a supercharged 2014 coyote. The 2019 does not go into OP mode at full throttle, which I understand as normal. I have tried to allow it in this tune without success. The goal is to adjust my cam timing at full throttle, upper RPM. It normally rests in 14 and 21 mp at full throttle, but its pulling cam timing hard and the hp is falling off bad up top on the dyno. Also banging my head on random torque faults, especially after cold starts pulling out into traffic. Pretty sure I am in over my head. I actually would pay for tuning right now if I could, but HP tuners is out of stock on all devices that the big names (Lund, PBD, etc.) would use to tune my car. So I have learned enough to get it to run and make 600 rwhp at 5800 rpm at 6.5 psi and then it rounds off. But its not happy. MAF is close on the rich side, spark is in check but torque tables are not even close and so I think the cam timing logic is being run by that. I will attach my tune and logs and see if anyone has any input.

[engineermike]

For OP, I believe your Max MAP above BP needs to be populated with reasonable numbers. Maybe more under Speed Density but I'd try that first.

As for the torque errors, your torque tables all max out at 1.1 like stock. These need to be rescaled to much higher loads to have any hope of getting torque errors fixed. You can copy these from Roush or Whipple and they will work better.

Be very careful soliciting tunes for cash on here. Some folks will very confidently offer to fix all your problems for a small fee then give you a tune that's complete garbage.

[Zapo]

Mike I appreciate your input, I have seen those tunes and had one to start this. I was better to start from stock. I do have a few sample boost tunes around but the torque tables seem to be worse then stock. Will try your OP advice

[mstang_man]

For OP, I believe your Max MAP above BP needs to be populated with reasonable numbers. Maybe more under Speed Density but I'd try that first.

As for the torque errors, your torque tables all max out at 1.1 like stock. These need to be rescaled to much higher loads to have any hope of getting torque errors fixed. You can copy these from Roush or Whipple and they will work better.

Be very careful soliciting tunes for cash on here. Some folks will very confidently offer to fix all your problems for a small fee then give you a tune that's complete garbage.

Take mikes advice and Copy the Roush or whipple Torque tables, and Speed Density OP data, Mike will get you right on these big power setups..

[engineermike]

Log VCT Schedule Mode so you can see what mode it's in. That might be another clue as to why it's not going to OP.

To be clear, you have the OP mapped point disabled. It will never weight the OP mapped point with anything, but it should be going into OP VCT schedule and follow the OP cam timing curve.

[Zapo]

I will log VCT sch. I do not have OP turned on in this tune because it almost instantly torque faults, even part throttle. I have checked the tune repository but I have found no wipple or roush tunes from the gen 3 era. I did try some tables from a 2020 edelbrock tune, but its very odd and does not have any of the lower tables enabled.

[engineermike]

Search the forums. I’m certain I nabbed a Gen3 Roush phase 2 tune off a post somewhere and it’s really well calibrated.

[murfie]

https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...ght=2019+roush

The file in the last post(OZtuning) should get you good starting tables. The approach is an interesting one. Flatten out DD table and build the variations into the model.

I don't think your MAF is that close.
Becareful with your OL Fuel base cold table. When its lower than 1.0 it will use that instead of WOT PE.
This can unintentionally put you in a mode that has cam phase limits. Potentially other limits like spark advance ect.

[Zapo]

Thank you all for the help to this point, I am learning a great deal, but definitely in the deep end of the pool. That file from OZ is very interesting to me. I found it only uses 1-6 MP, which greatly simplifies things. I fought to make some of the ideas and tables in it to work with my combo for about 4 hours today. Starting to get it to run, and idle and drive at very low loads. Any kind of boost shuts it down hard. I am not aware of what is making it cut out. Any input from this file and log would be appreciated. Car is still strapped to the dyno for tomorrow, so if I am missing data channels I can add and repeat.

[engineermike]

In my tune i only use mapped points 0-4. As you said, it greatly simplifies tuning. The oz file is based on Roush which only uses 6. The phase 2 Gen3 Roush file is one of the best aftermarket cals I’ve seen.

[Zapo]

It looks like my Calculated MAP value is completely out to lunch. 135 kpa at cruise and 200 kpa at the slightest bit of boost. The speed density tables from the OZ or my stock file don't seem to act much different, although I have not done speed density tuning in this format to clearly understand what's going on. Its odd that my mostly stock file actually had the calc map value in the ball park, yet using those same speed density tables within this tune has different results, obviously I do not know how it works.

[engineermike]

Zapo I'm not seeing in that log where the torque source went into FMEM (fault) mode. Also, you should take all of the unused mapped point weights out of your log. They are slowing down your data rate for the actual important stuff.

It would help if you would point out where exactly in the log the problem aoccurred.

[Zapo]

It's right where MAP touches 200 kpa, the highest rpm point of this log. Engine torque drops to -1.

[engineermike]

The engine torque dropped to -1 just after pedal position went to went to nothing. That part is working as it should.

[Zapo]

Take a look at this one, it shows it faster, as I took your advice and reduced the channel clutter. The Map sensor spikes to over 200kpa, then goes to 0, the engine sounds like its off for a couple seconds as the RPM is coasting down, then it fires up again with a big map spike and then a return to something close to real. When ever the TPS value shows about 6 % the car is idling with me off the throttle, but whenever it shows 1.1% the engine "sounds" like its off, and my input did not initiate the issue, even if APP suggests I did. Odd for sure. Something else to note, if I use the Torque Monitoring values from the (OZ) file my car starts up with a wrench light and torque fault before I even touch the throttle. My torque monitor values are absolutely gutted and maxed out right now to get things working at all, this was the same with my stocker based file.

[engineermike]

Why are there still 28 mapped point weights in the log when you're only using the first 7? The slow polling rate makes it difficult to figure out what's actually happening when.

[Zapo]

Sorry I did several logs over the day and realized that I had not yet reduced the channel count for the log I posted. Will get some more tomorrow and will record it with just the slightest throttle input and not move my throttle through a few events. Any channels that I should add that may have relevant data? My trimmed down list is attached. Also a pic with red arrows showing the area where the engine is "dead"graph.jpg

[17GT]

Here is a 2019 Rousch Stage 2 stock tune.

[engineermike]

Where the engine went "dead" appears to be DFCO. Lambda went to 2.0 and it was decelerating. The fuel source didn't switch immediately but I suspect that's due to polling rate and/or too many channels.

[Zapo]

Because I am not able to really figure out what is going on here, I just pulled out the patience card and started trying small parts of the oz tune to see what works and what does not. IT seems something to do with the table mapping that allows the Oz tune to run on 0-6 mp if I don't use that I can use lots of the parts from the OZ tune. I was able to use all the nicely scaled spark and torque tables from the oz tune and limit my new tune to only use table 14 under full power. This has made things work better, and my map calc values are very close to real, but I still can't find a way to choose my cam timing for table 14. I tried a 10 and a 0 in the mp 14 point on the table here table.jpg and there was not difference in logged cam timing hereVCT.jpg. Is that not how that works? Still would love to get this into optimum power mode so I can set the cam timing as the rpm goes up the curve. But making progress. Log and tune attached for any who are still following along. If you are surprised by my timing numbers and IAT, the vehicle has 100 octane fuel right now, and the MAF is before the water to air intercooler as I still have to install my remote IAT sensor.