First time I've ever noticed this. Got me buggered what's causing it. Accel pedal 100%, ETC follows then closes in for a bit then goes up and all good.
Only thing I can think of is a TCS torque limit or some torque rate limit?
First correct guess gets a prize...
Screenshot 2022-07-06 113205.png
Originally Posted by hjtrbo
i had a similar situation where i was getting ETC cut. I ended up maxing out the EOT table. that has fixed me so far. However, when i was logging the torque management type it flashed DFCO rpm limit. I did not see that in your log though. Maybe try to disable ETC cut to see if its in that system?
Undriven - vs - Driven wheel speed
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Put the torque model back to stock or put a ctsv one in it.
Otherwise things I've seen cause this, but don't believe to be your issue -
Trans
TCC slip - usually cuts timing before throttle though
TM too low
Trans torque settings
Throttle settings
Rev limiter settings - more so accel threshold, but as stated - wheel speed and oil temp in swap setups
Weird engine test, but that one's super rare and takes guessing to even figure out
Otherwise haven't dealt big time with the Holden's, so don't know if there's something special in the background that would interfere with things, such as from another tuning program having access to it and someone changing something they shouldn't have.
The torque model was the big one sticking out to me - don't know if it'll solve it, but doesn't look right and definitely not stock with the particular settings changed.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Hey you lot, thanks for the replies. I've go them all noted down. I'll do the shot gun approach and then back them out 1 by 1 till its gone.
GHuggins, virtual torque.... I'd like to discuss this with you if you have the time and will???
I've kind of thought I had it sussed
Here is the street dyno run from the log included in the first post with a calculated drive train loss added to the rear wheel values vs the scanner reported torque. The shape is nearly right and scanner torque is over reported by around 10%.
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And here are the calculated drivetrain losses that I used that were worked out from a stock dyno run.
Screenshot 2022-07-07 140856.png
And here is the WOT row at the respective spark showing I'm not far off stock Holden save for the low rpm areas which was done to deal with the cam which got that rpm part of the torque map reporting close to stock for idle, cruise and decel.
Screenshot 2022-07-07 142255.png
Screenshot 2022-07-07 142708.jpg
Always learning from you man, keen to hear what you think about my thought process and how'd you go about it!
The way you're doing the virtual torque is actually ideal - it's just the stupid ignorant torque equations won't allow for true tuning of the model - it shapes everything for the equations instead of for "what the engine is actually doing" and may require multiple re-shapings with a lot of give and take to get things to go or rather to twist how you need them to. This is why I personally see how Ford does the torque controls as being the best. Ford allows for full in depth torque number programming. It's just Ford took it to beyond a logical level and has 20some different tunes in one calibration averaging out multiple tables at once. Makes tuning a real pita and time consuming to do right....
In this regards to get the torque model 100% you have to do dyno pulls for each map and each airmass level - you can't just do wot pulls... The way you changed yours it's dipping off pretty bad compared to stock which can "inadvertently" cause bad "by products"... I would probably take it a step further and figure out the exact drive-train loss - since you're already there - and this way you can use a general equation to back calculate everything. Chassis dyno's make this very hard to do - especially with an auto, but it's doable to a certain lower airmass or map level... I only ever took the time to do this once and it still required massaging, so didn't bother with it anymore... Plus keep in mind airmass and map models - especially with cams - will look entirely different to one another. Think of the VE table vs the maf curve when a cam is installed only entirely opposite to one another for some weird reason when cams are involved. PD blowers will once again change everything about the models even when cams are involved.
A lot of people don't realize the torque models even in gen 4's are still heavily referenced - even for things like idle timing controls - they just aren't referenced or used for controls like in gen 5's or newer... I've personally learned a lot about torque modeling in just in general in the last couple of months thanks to some trouble childs
I personally don't change the torque models much on gen 4's unless FI or nitrous are introduced... I'll post some pics in both your threads as I have some for your baro table too...
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Again, this may not be your issue, but since we're discussing it....
This is a cam only mod TM -
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
These are Cam with PD Blower
These are probably a better example as the actual numbers are more in line with each. Then also keep in mind if you have a moving cam, you have to tune all of the cam areas.
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
May be over-reporting torque due to an MBT cross...hard to say without more data. Populate your flex fuel MBT offset with a table from a flex fuel cal, see how that affects reported torque. Need to monitor more torque variables as well.
Thanks gents. Happened again today after a flash, first pull with engine run time at 180 seconds, EOT at 92degC and ECT at 88degC (ITT through the roof lol). Pulled over to look at the log, it said RPM limit this time. Smashed it when I left the pull over bay and it was fine from then on. Only 2 tables it can be are EOT or cold engine rev limit? The car was well and truly warmed up. I'm going to max those 2 tables out for testing.
I've since backed down the E85 VT 5% to get it closer to reality. Till next time out on the road...
smokeshow, I based my E85 tune originally off a 2013 Caprice PPV. The file I have for that model does not have the flex MBT table populated. I will search around and see what other flex vehicles have got. Cheers.
do u still have the wheel hop control enabled ? not sure if thats related or how it works
Hey man!
Na, that's all turned off. It's never been an issue till recently, but that said, this is my first winter on E85. So I've fat fingered something or these high pressure cool winter days are making some good air and I'm up on the limit of something. I've got heaps of things to check as per the all the good suggestions in this thread.
I've been keeping up with your build thread over on JC. Not long to go now!
yea getting closer still fair way to go tho and this cold weather is not helping, seems everything i fit up needs something modified to clear something alse and then working it out and ordering stuff in take longer, hopefully before end of year need to feel some hp under my right foot
I would try maxing out the EOT as that was my issue when my throttle cut was happening. Rpm limit flashed in the scanner as well. Like you said, even though i was at operating temp, I would still get throttle cut when trying to go WOT. Worth a try.
Yes. Now I think more about my issues started after I modified that table. Fingers crossed.
Didn't realize it was only happening after flashing for brief periods of time. If that's indeed the case then yes - your temperature controlled rev limiters are most likely the cause or something in that tab area. Looks like Rob might get this one
2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80
~Greg Huggins~
Remote Tuning Available at gh[email protected]
Mobile Tuning Available for North Georgia and WNC
Haha, perhaps. Not sure what it's in the prize cupboard. How's the binary learning curve going?
Didn't realize it was only happening after flashing for brief periods of time. If that's indeed the case then yes - your temperature controlled rev limiters are most likely the cause or something in that tab area. Looks like Rob might get this one
Not so fast my man! I have had prior experience with this, yes. But if memory serves me correctly, I remember another fella shedding some light on the subject. AND I appreciate you Sir! Still going WOT to this day!
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