L83 Swap 1971 C10 Suburban. (permanent) fault codes

[IARLLC]

The PCM depends on either the MAF or the MAP (speed density) or both to decide fuel and spark. As blindsquirrel wrote, "for it to run without the MAF it has to be in speed density mode," There is no maybe about it. When you unplug the MAF on a GEN5 GM you are (by default) in speed density but without the help of the air inlet temp sensor that is in the MAF. Maybe your log would have noticed that it was in speed density if you had put it in speed density via settings but not by the failed MAF. Most GM from GEN3 on up run a blend of the two systems up until about 4k rpm. If both systems are well calibrated they can run decently without the other but each has its positives and downsides. There were plenty of arguments about that as GM and Ford went back and forth in the 80s.

There is the second factor that the air inlet temp defaults to -40 degrees when you unplug it (by unplugging the MAF). This change will also enrich the whole scale. It is better to fail the MAF in the settings but keep it plugged in so that the air temps don't mess with your test results. It is up to you to look at the MAF info, MAP info and/or fuel correction factors to decide if you have a bad part or just need to adjust (tune) it.

One of the fantastic options with HPTuners is the ability to "fail" the MAF in order to independently tune the speed density (Volumetric Efficiency) table and/or fail the MAP in order to independently tune the MAF table/tables. Instructions for how to do that can be found in the "How to" links at the top of the GEN3,4,5 forums. These steps only take a few moments and tell you a whole lot about why your motor is running the way it is.

You made it this far. It will be worth it to take these next steps. The swapped Sub will thank you.

[2stimpy]

Thank you.
I will do some mor reading before I do some more testing.
I also have an issue with the fuel pump I need to figure out.
And i need to come up with a solution for mij backup lights.

A few pics of what I am working on.
I am from the Netherlands, so that makes everything just a little more challenging.

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[IARLLC]

Beautiful!!! Favorite rig I ever built for myself was a 68 Stepside. After spending 9 years building it and 2 years driving it (on sunny days), sold in 2002. I still daydream about doing another one on a 2016 Tahoe chassis with an L86.

[2stimpy]

So i got a new unit installed and it worked like ok while testing in VCM scanner. Fan has to be set to PWM EV(not PWM Electric)
I changed some things in the tune and reset the LTFT and some more things.
After all this I thought I do a test run. Immediately I noticed the same undrivable behavior.
So I stopped and pulled the MAF, it started to stumble and a few moment later it ran good again.
I als noticed that the fan was on at full power, strange.
When I starter driving again, it drove a lot better like the last time with the maf disconnected.
Went home right away and when I turned off the ignition, the fan kept blowing. I had to pull the connector to stop the fan.
So I have got another unit for the bin. (if I plug in the unit again, the fan starts running right away just like the other unit i burned)

I'll go for the 2016 Camaro SS fan and adapt that to my radiator, that should work and last a bit longer.

Only then I'll be able to start and try to get the engine running good.
Right now i wont be able to run the engine at a controlled operating temperature.

It was worth trying.

[IARLLC]

On GEN5 I have seen some certain codes cause full speed fans. For instance if the donor vehicle came with an active grille and you don't turn off those codes the fan will run full speed. Also, some hot climate models had "after-run" to keep the fan on for a few more moments after turning the vehicle off. I am not sure if either of these have to do with your situation but it is good to check the actual cause. It would stink to go searching for a problem when there is not a problem. I'm curious how the fans and ignition are wired though. I don't really expect the PCM to power the fan later if everything had been turned off for a while. Burnt relay, melted wires? I've seen both of those happen on larger fans.

Also, just a reminder that unplugging the MAF will cause it to run richer than the calibration since the unplugged air temp reads -40. It seems to me that your O2s are reading well enough to be able to adjust your MAF calibration bit by bit. As long as the system is depending on information from both the MAF and MAP and one of them is way off, I expect other side affects like strange timing.

[2stimpy]

I haven't noticed any special settings in the tune.
It did run ok for a few moments. without the engine running.
When I started driving the engine was no where near the operating temperature. So the fan should not have come on in any case.
The fan kept blowing at full for the whole time and did not stop until I pulled the plug.

Even after a day with no ignition on, when I insert the connector the fan instantly starts at full.
So i am pretty sure something made the unit fail.
I had the frequency set to 100 hz.

If you look at the connector, starting with the 2 big wires.
First (big wire) connected to Fused Power.
Second (big wire) Positive output to Fan.
Third (thin wire) control wire from ECU (pin 59 in X1 E92a ECU)
Fourth (thin wire) to ground.

Fan Ground to Chassis and Positive to pin 2 on connector.

I know It is not the right way to pull the plug on the MAF sensor, but it was for that moment the easiest way to get it driving.
If I got my fan sorted out I will try and do it the right way as written in the sticky on this gen 5 section and try the speed density tuning.

I think this should be wired right.
I did notice the Fan controller was making a loud humming noise up until it reached 90%

[2stimpy]

I have the new PWM fan from a 2016 Camaro in.
I hooked up the wires and tried to control it via the VCM scanner.
That seems to work partially, because the fan wont start at 10% it does on 20%.
But on 40% it looks like its blowing 100% already.
And when I push the 1% increments, it will suddenly stop and if i go one step further it wil go on again.

My main concern is why my fan will start the moment I start the engine. the fan wil run at 30%.
But this time the fan will go of if I shut down the engine.

Could this code "0x7E8: P0113 - Intake Air Temperature Sensor 1 Circuit High (Permanent)" be the cause?

But if it does, how will i ever get the engine to operating temp to make the faults go away.

[IARLLC]

Is that P0113 just active when the MAF is disconnected? I would connect the MAF and adjust the MAF settings in your tune to make it run right since the MAF is located in a tube that is different than the factory intake tube. If it runs so lean that you cannot get it into closed loop to get some date, it is OK to add 20% to the MAF table and see if that helps get everything stabilized enough to start tuning it. You can always return the MAF table to original settings or take it the other way if it does not help. Once your fueling starts to stabilize you can start to refine it.

As I mentioned, I have seen certain codes cause the fan to run full blast. I cannot remember all of the codes that might cause this. I remember the active grille codes can cause the fan to run.

I don't have experience setting up a PWM fan on a swap. I remember seeing some posts about it though. It is possible that your fan settings still need some adjustment.

[2stimpy]

Jip, P0113 is there the whole time. I can't delete the permanent codes.
I read somewhere "permanent" codes only disappear after the problem is solved and the computer was able to recover the problem.
That should be when you drive for a while.

But of course I can only drive for that log if the fan is working like it should.

This morning I put in the AC/Fan table with all 0. And I reset the codes that where still there from disconnecting the MAF.
Now when I start the engine The fan does not go on. I let it run for a while and all looked good.
So I think this looks promising.

Now I am going to start cutting the Fan out of the shroud, mount in the original shroud and go from there.

[2stimpy]

So I finally got the Fan installed and working properly.

I ran the engine to get up to operating temperature which took a while and than the van came on nice.
Because I disconnect the battery while i am working on the sub, the ecu wil set to default setting.
At these setting the engine runs good but verry rich on startup, but drives terrible.
The only way to get it drivable is to disconnect the maf, But because this wont give error on the first appearance the only thing that can cause the change is that the intake air temperature suddenly drops to minus 40.
But ok, than at least I can drive it.

I have been reading and searching a lot about the speed density tuning option. The thing is, i can't find the VE tables in the 2018 stock Silverado tune.
So I would not know how to do this.

The log from yesterdays warmup shows the ecu go in to closed loop mode after about 15 seconds from startup.

22-08-12 20-34-13.hpl
22-08-12 20-56-16.hpl

I also have some strange noises coming from different places.
This is from the engine bay, a weird click/chirp.


From under the dash.
Looks the sam ritme, sounds like it is coming from the fuel system. I have the regulator mounted directly to my firewall near the steering column.

[IARLLC]

That is great that you got your fan going.

The MAF is very quick and easy to calibrate. Since pipe diameter is not stock it makes sense to take a few minutes to adjust it and see how great it runs.

Your VE (actually VVE on a GEN5) should not need much work since things that affect it have not changed much. I would still adjust your VVE tables but if you are not able to adjust your MAF (which needs calibration) I would not suggest that you jump into the VVE yet.

[2stimpy]

I am going to start at the beginning and start tuning the maf. I have an Innovate LM-2 dual wideband reader so I will try to implement this in the scanner to get better results.
Thanks for your patience with me, I am verry new to all af this and did not think it would be necessary to tune to get the sub even drivable. I was planning to dive in to this later(that is why i bought the HP tuner and credits)
Now with more than one issues going on it is a bit overwhelming.

I found a guy on yt that explains the steps verry well.

So I'll be watching and reading a lot more and weld in one bung for the extra O2 sensor for the Innovate.
Because I am not going to tune forever, I don't want a permanent solution for the wideband.

Edit,
Of course I couldn't be that lucky, my wideband is the 4.2 version(and been used for a couple of years). The 4.9 is preferable, so I guess I have to dig in my pocket again.

[IARLLC]

There are lots of great guys on here that like to help. You will do fine. Just keep asking questions and you will get there.