If you think about it... it's amazing that these things run! We've sure come a long way from the old Otto engine!Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusC1024
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If you think about it... it's amazing that these things run! We've sure come a long way from the old Otto engine!Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusC1024
I also decided to remove a variable by ordering a set of standard rockers. They should be here tomorrow and I will get the pattern from one cylinder and double check the pushrod length with the checker and see where I am then. This should allow me to get the length perfect and eliminate the rollers as a source of noise. I also have a pair of valve covers that I am cutting the top off of so I can pinpoint the noise if there is still any.
Ok, so here is another question while I am waiting for parts and sunshine... I replaced the stock valve rotators with CompCams CCA-4779-8 Valve spring locators. Does that seem correct?
COMP Cams Valve Spring Locators 4779-8COMP Cams Valve Spring Locators 4779-8
Yeah seems fine.
Ok, so here is what I did. I took an additional 0.025" off of the length of the OEM pushrods, then went to the nearest 'off the shelf' size. These came out to 7.600" and 8.550". I then used the pushrod checkers and set them to those lengths and got these patterns:
Attachment 136229
Attachment 136230
I still hear 'click, click, click'. I also checked the pushrod openings in the heads and did not see anything getting close nor did I see anything hitting the guides (in and out, I do see where there could be contact side to side).
I am on the fence about ordering a set of stamped steel, 7/16" stud, longer hole rockers simply to get this thing quiet so we can tune without the knock sensors throwing things off... I'm in it this deep, what's another $100 right :rolleyes: ??? The noise I hear is most definitely at the rocker and I can make them make noise if I simply grab them while preloaded and turn side to side, I get a click, click.
I also made this so once I get the pushrods in there I can make sure it all looks good running and pinpoint the noise if it is still there:
Attachment 136231
So, are these the correct pushrods for the 1999 L29 BBC? The ones in there are 3/8" but seem to have a ball, rather than a formed tip. Is this the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpartsnrust
Attachment 136284Attachment 136285
Man what the hell that sucks that the noise is still there. I'm sure you're getting fed up with it.
Side to side noise huh? Have you tried to see what's going on by watching them while someone turns the motor over?
Is there any chance the spring retainer is hitting the bottom of the rocker arm? I see a ring of brighter metal on one of them, but that may be the way they are made.
Those are nice pushrods and they'll work. The formed tip will have the same profile as a ball end where contact happens.
Here's a good article I came across about rocker geometry.
https://www.w8ji.com/setting_shaft_rocker_geometry.html
There's a lot in that article!
I did order the stamped steel long slot 7/16" stud Summit rockers. I also ordered those pushrods at 7.600" and 8.550" as per the stock minus the 0.025" which I checked with the checker rods that gave the third pattern above. SO they should be here on Thursday or Friday and I will put it all together QUIET like this week/weekend. Thanks again for all the help and patience! I am pretty sure the roller tips are making noise, but also pretty sure that a majority of the noise was/is from the too long pushrods. I will assemble with stamped for lower noise and then after it is tuned I may swap in the roller tips to see if that causes any knock reading. Of course that is assuming it isn't the actual lifters making the noise!!!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpartsnrust
Now, how do I get this all together without the wife knowing how much I ACTUALLY spent? Anyone have any experience in obfuscating funds? :)
OK, got the pushrods AND the stamped steel long slot non-roller tip rockers... going to put it together today/tomorrow so I hope to have a log shortly!Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpartsnrust
Hoping for the best.
Always something. I think I am getting there with the noise. I preloaded 1-1/4 turns and they quieted down considerably. I was going to road test and get some more logs and see if it was quieted, but the trans cooler lines are leaking! UGH. I also tried something for the high IATs, but haven't been able to test that yet either....
Attachment 136602Attachment 136603
Haha creative.
Alright... Got the trans leak fixed. It was the fittings at the radiator. Had to replace the whole thing :( The lifters/rockers are much quieter with additional preload. Took them to 1-1/4. Spec is 1/2 - 1-1/2 turns past zero lash. Got the insulation on the airbox and intake tube. SO, I plan to finally get a new log tomorrow assuming no further catastrophes. Sheesh.... Thanks for the patience and help!
Looking forward to it.
OK, so I think there is maybe a single or two 'bad' lifters in here.... You mentioned Morel lifters. Do they make lifters that I can drop in and not have to do the whole buy new pushrods deal over? When I start and warm up fully there seems to be one or two that start clacking intermittently. The oil pressure is solid 60PSI on cold start then gradually lowers to like 20 at idle, but will jump to 45-50 when the throttle is goosed. The engine guy had me get extra clearance bearings as he likes stuff loose. The click sound doesn't get worse, nor better when warmed up and it is somewhat sporadic. I can go another 1/4 turn on the preload to see if that may get rid of the last of the noise. I was going to contact CompCams to see if they would swap the pair out if that doesn't do it. I have also heard that these aren't the best lifters to begin with and I'd rather not go thru that whole exercise if there is a chance that it is just crappy lifters from the get go. I have the specs, how do I see if there are some Morels that may be plug and play??
Comp Cams Roller lifter 900-16
They are .842” diameter, weight 121g and the seat height is 2.66”
It is definitely worlds better than with the wrong pushrods and I am maybe just being picky at this point... The thing that gets me now is that it seems to be one or two rather than the whole chorus of them clacking away.
Not really anything plug and play inside a motor unless you get lucky. The tolerances are just too tight.
Those comps are stock replacement lifters as far as I can tell. Comp can be hit and miss on quality. I did their trunnion upgrade kit and it started to eat itself. Turns out there was a known issue with heat treatment.
Morels are good, but really expensive and probably overkill. Hard to beat Melling for stock lifters. JB-7003.
Try full preload like you were saying before you start changing stuff out.
Well, got it back together. Sounds ok'ish.... I imagine it is just gonna be a bit noisier than stock as it were. There doesn't seem to be a defined clack, but rather just a bit louder all around. It seems that the knock retard is still there even with the less noise and the cooler IATs. Maybe I wound up with more compression than I had expected? Here is the log.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusC1024
Attachment 136958
I had run the numbers a few times, but I wasn't 100% sure on the volume of the heads. These are stock Vortec L29 heads (casting #10141279) that I thought had 100cc chambers.
Head gasket is 4.370 in. Bore, 0.030 in. Compressed Thickness (GM part #12554769)
FORGED 4032 MAHLE -3CC FLAT TOP 4.310" Pistons (engine guy had them bore to 4.315")
6.385" I-Beam rods
4.25" stroke crank
CompCams Xtreme Energy Computer Controlled 212/218 Hydraulic Roller K-Kit Chevrolet Big Block GEN VI (K01-412-8) at 0 degrees
Stock deck is between 0.020" and 0.025" which I had decked by 0.010" to 9.790"
Attachment 136959
IAT's are definitely better.
That log was run on the 8th. tune. Is that still ok for this latest tune to apply? I think I backed up to the 8th. because that is the first one with the knock retard logging enabled.
Ok, I am guessing you turned off the Knock sensor because it runs like it is supposed to! I do still hear valve noise, but not anywhere near what it was with the wrong length pushrods. Here is the log from today. I ordered some 'race gas' to mix in to boost a little bit more just in case. Did those calculations seem accurate? Also, I only run 91 or better octane (whatever is the best available). Would I be able to get lifters that would match these for the pushrod lengths?
This is from CompCams:
"Comp Cams Roller lifter 900-16. They are .842? diameter, weight 121g and the seat height is 2.66? "
Looking at "72920-16LUN LUNATI CHEVY V8 OEM REPLACEMENT HYDRAULIC ROLLER LIFTERS"
I would have considered putting the original back in after cleaning, but I 'modified' two of them for the clearance testing with the putty and there were indications of flaking on the rollers...
Attachment 137039
Didn't mean to disable the knock sensors. I grabbed the last tune we did without checking. They're back on now.
The Melling lifters should work with those pushrods. Same case for the Lunati lifters. They are factory replacement as well.
Well, it does confirm for me that the 'noise' whatever is causing it is being interpreted as knock by the computer.Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusC1024
Yikes, will be a bit before I get them:
Attachment 137066
I also was able to hear a heat shield rattling up under there... I will be looking for that while waiting for the lifters too.
I have also been researching to see if there is any way I assembled something incorrectly that could be causing lack of oil to the lifters. So far I came up with nothing. The oil pump does not use a gasket, the rear main has an o-ring in there, which I installed, the rear cam bearing seat has a groove cut into the block that provides the oiling up to the lifters which gets its feed from a passage in the block. The oil pressure gauge is tapped in the feed that leads to the lifters, so I can't see how there could be no oil pressure getting up there. There is minimal information on the Gen VI block as far as oiling diagram, but I do know that these have a 'priority main' oiling system.
At least you don't have to remove the heads to change lifters lol.
Silver lining.... I'll take it.
Well luckily (actually unluckily) I have the downtime to fix my wife's Sienna that blew out a plastic thermostat housing. Who puts plastic on motors? Oh yeah, just about everyone nowdays... But while I was under there I saw the transfer case leaking gear oil! It never ends!!!
Well, I know what my next project is anyhow. :)
Damn... they went on backorder....
Supply chain issues, I'm sure :rolleyes:
So the plot thickens.... I got the 'backorder' notice from Jegs. However, when I go to their website, it says 'expected to ship directly from the vendor within 24 hours' for the availability. I called Jegs and they reached out to Lunati who said 'yeah, we have those in stock'. SO supposedly going out tomorrow. WTH?Quote:
Originally Posted by SiriusC1024
Supposedly shipping out tomorrow (Monday 10/02)
ugh, still not shipped.... Jegs shows 'ships in 24 hrs direct from manufacturer', but not to me!
Watch it'll ship DHL and be there by Christmas.
OK, so I didn't give up yet!!! However I bailed on the Lunati as they kept pushing out the ship date without any sort of feedback or notification from Jegs, or Lunati. The 'order status' was the same from the time I placed it. SO, I did a bunch more research and came down on GM Performance lifters and as an added bonus, they have increased oiling to the rockers. They should be here this week and it is now a race against the weather as I don't have a garage! I plan to rip her all down once I have parts in hand (I do already have the intake gaskets and such in hand) and swap the lifters. I will also do a borescope inspection of the rear plugs on the lifter galley to make sure they don't protrude into the passage and block anything. Damn this is time consuming (and money consuming). I don't think I broke anything yet, so I still have optimism!
Glad to hear you're back on track. I'll be here when you're ready.
Lifter update: Tomorrow, October 17 by 7:00 P.M.
I recall that when I had put in the drilled oil galley plug in the rear by mistake it pissed oil at an impressive rate on the flex plate, torque converter, trans housing and driveway so I don't expect to see any physical restrictions in the passages, BUT will verify to make sure. I really think I am just another victim of some bad new parts at this point. When I ran an automotive electrical shop I saw SO MANY bad parts that is was depressing. People would come in and say "I know it isn't the alternator because (shop x, y or z) replaced it, AND OF COURSE the alternator was the issue. It was probably the original issue as well. Customers were not readily accepting of paying for parts twice. Kinda like I won't be happy if the lifters are actually the problem. I will be happy the issue is fixed, no doubt, but won't be happy none the less. I will be even more unhappy if the issue is not fixed!
Parts in hand! I plan to at least start the lifter swap tomorrow, Sunday.
update: got here.
Attachment 138710
Got them out, soaking new and will check galley to make sure clear an open with oil flow using drill pump on Dist shaft.
Any luck?