knock sensors ?

i have a question ? does the pcm use the temp sensor to read the temp and if its to high and it sees the knock sensor voltage is at its normal range could the temp reading a temp that is lil high like 200 -205 and the knock is up at those temps could it set a low voltage for that temp and the range of the knock sensor, cause my temp on the scanner does run like 204 but on my mechanical gauge its like 180 to 185. not reading the same as the scanner, i didnt think much about it but was just thinking if the pcm thinks its running warmer than it is and the knock is picking up signals at the wrong temp could the temp sensor be off like 10 -15 degrees warmer causing the knock to set codes.

If your mechanical temp gauge is at the back of the head it should read a little colder. That?s because the coolant hasn?t picked up the heat from the cylinder head yet. The coolant runs from the front of the block to the rear of the block, up through the large opening in the head gasket, then from rear to front through the head, down through the opening in the gasket into the block and water pump. That?s why GM always puts the ECT sensor at the front left. It?s the hottest spot in the cooling system.

This has nothing to do with the knock sensors. That?s a separate issue. You didn?t post a log, tune, or what you?re working on so nobody will be able to help you without guessing.

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Originally Posted by pdsq98gt

If your mechanical temp gauge is at the back of the head it should read a little colder. That?s because the coolant hasn?t picked up the heat from the cylinder head yet. The coolant runs from the front of the block to the rear of the block, up through the large opening in the head gasket, then from rear to front through the head, down through the opening in the gasket into the block and water pump. That?s why GM always puts the ECT sensor at the front left. It?s the hottest spot in the cooling system.

This has nothing to do with the knock sensors. That?s a separate issue. You didn?t post a log, tune, or what you?re working on so nobody will be able to help you without guessing.

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He keeps posting separate threads for everything on his build, so nobody can keep up with what is going on.

its a guestion nothing to do with a build. and my mechanical gauge is in the front driver side the temp to the pcm was moved to passager side so that the gauge would reach where i wanted it. people cant just ask a question in here with out being put on blast.

if the pcm thinks its running warmer than it is and the knock is picking up signals at the wrong temp could the temp sensor be off like 10 -15 degrees warmer causing the knock to set codes.

No.

thanks

its it why we bought this hp tuners to have access to the forum to make changes in ones tune. im no expert i come in here for help not to be cut in half for a mistake. if people dont want to help others out then that is fine but to sit up on a thrown thinking one is smarter than other cause they figured out how to us this crap. then id rather do it my self.

200 - 205 doesn't sound like a problem at all, stock thermostat should be opening around 185, are you running electric cooling fans? They have to be set to come on higher than the thermostat temperature or you are just wasting energy as they will run continuously because they will never get the temp inside the engine below the opening temp of the thermostat. No coolant flows to the radiator until the thermostat opens. I am running a series/parallel 2 speed dual fan setup, fan 1 command turns both on low speed (fan motors are in series so run at half speed) fan 2 command switches fans to high speed (fan motors are in parallel and run at full speed) Currently i have Fan 1 is set to come on at 205 and turn off at 200, fan 2 is set to come on at 210 and off at 205. I don't think there is any correlation between coolant temp and knock sensor codes, do any of your logs show timing being pulled due to knock? Or are you just getting the diagnostic codes for the knock detection system not functioning correctly?

my fans turn on and off . at the right times . not pulling no timing just shows max knock of 8 at 70kpa, i finally figured out my afr gauge wasnt right, i reset it up and redone the ve table. as far as running. its in speed density, i havent had a chance to run enough time to post a log. cause of personal reasons. i have up graded the main tune with the new ve, im gonna run it early tomorrow morning. hopefully i got it. my setup is far from stock, i have a after market cam 585/585 sloppy stage 2, the real reason i think im having issues is that i have a 102mm tbody trying to get the idle right , been messing with the foller and the cracker, i think i got it now, its not driving its self its. it does die sometimes when coming to a stop, thats why im messing with the follower and cracker, the knock i think was coming from the ve being to low at those kpa, ill know more here soon. my plan is to take it in for a dyno tune soon as i get my bonus from work, along with new injectors anda set of 243 heads thats almost done at the machine shop. i just dont want to hurt the rings or pistons is why im asking alot quest ion this site, im not ready to post it up yet cause its not done yet. i had turck decapped injectors on this thing with a sheet metal intake, i got rid of those injectors and put a tbss intake on. i finally got the right injector data and the right map sensor on. i listen to alot of wrong people when i first started buy stuff 6 years ago to build this thing, if i had to do it all again i would have just put the v6 motori had back in this truck. but thought this stuff couldnt be this hard to figure out but it is real hard, and i dont adivce anyone to build these thing im stuck cause of the money i have in this thing, but here soon i get this dyno done, then im done, those that took the time to help me out i really do appreciate you. but those that cut someone cause of a mistake someone did please just move on.

<<<just shows max knock of 8 at 70kpa>>>

Sounds like classic max timing pull when entering PE if you have knock sensor codes. Just set P0327 and P0332 to NER. Most of the time the knock sensors will work fine for detecting real knock even though they fail their diagnostics unless they are just a rusted ball of metal.

ok thanks. i enrich that area threw tuning the ve, i didnt just threw in a number. here is my tune i havent ran on it yet, i will sometime today

If it has KS codes it will pull that timing no matter what else you do in the tune. Knock sensor diagnostics are completely independent of any knock detection. Seems sometimes you just don't listen to the advice you get.

its not that i dont listen to anyones advice, how can it pull timing when i have all the tables set the same? i did just get a code for my driver side o2 not reading the same. so im gonna change that out hopefully tomorrow. then do another ve tune, truck is running better, i set the follower lil lower at 0 mpg seems to catch its self from dying as much, and i set the timing up alil at idle not much more just in the drive table. soon as i get the o2 in and do the ve ill post up a log of both. just doesnt make since to post things when the data will be off. im trying here i think the big reason im having such problems is that i have that 102mm tbody and trying to get things to work together when its not a stock set up. if it was all stock stuff then it would be alot easier to tune, after market stuff just real picky on settings. i appreciate the help from everyone . believe me if we figure this thing out i will pass on the info to others.,,,,,its a ball of mods trying make work with each other.

my truck at hmy speed runs around 175-185 on temps with no fan on. my fans come on at 195 to 200 cool the water down then shuts off heats back up comes on cools down turn off etc. my fans work spot on. my issue is the higher knock at just one or two spots in the ve, i think my afr gauge was off not letting me set the ve up as it needs to be, and i had some sensor that shouldnt be used in the build i have , so i was getting the wrong data to do the tuning my truck needed. but i think im on the right path now,

my mods are as followed; it is a 5.3 bored to a 5.7, flat top stock 5.7 ls1 pistons. set of 862 heads with a 2.00 intake valve put in these heads, trun upgrade rockers, trick flow cam sloppy stage 2, 585 lift, ls7 lifters, double roller chain, ported oil pump, king bearings, arp head bolts & rod bolts, arp main studs, tbss intake with a china (trump voice) tbody 102mm junk, owell. 4" intake tube. 34.6lbs bosch injector, walboro intank fuel pump 255lph, i plan on putting a fresh set of ported and flowed tested 243 heads on. might get a super charger or a pro charger, depends on my raise from work. i will be upgrading the injectors and adyno tune in the next few months. trans is a 4l80e with a ptc billet 3600 stall, truck is lowered rolling on a set of 22" murdered out. just having lil issue, other than that ping at 4000 @ 70kpa of 8 and a dying at a stop which i think i got both on a path to repair as before i was getting wrong data in to put bad data in my tune. truck does seem to like the tuning im dong so far with the right data. im sure a better tuner will see things i dont. and i am gonna have it dyno tuned here soon . just dont want to blow a ring off of a piston before i can get it in to be done right. so please bare with me as im new to this hptuners world, just learning

You can try this or just compare it as far as timing tables

Are you adjusting your VE without disabling the MAF? Haven't seen a log to know if your MAF is still plugged in, which it should be unless you have a separate IAT, but it is not disabled properly in the tune, this could be why you are driving yourself crazy running in circles trying to tune this, and i know myself and or others have mentioned this to you before. MAF and VE are calculations are blended up until the High RPM Disable setting, then it uses MAF only, currently this is set to 4000RPM. They need to be isolated from each other while tuning, disable MAF, tune the VE, disable the VE, tune the MAF if you wish, then re-enable the blended VE/MAF if you wish.

im shutting down the maf, the long and short terms turning, doing the normal things turning off the maf, dtcs. set the maf to 10,000. turn off dtcfo, and temp control .

Under Engine Diag, MAF High fail frequency needs to be set to 0, the three MAF DTCs need to be set to Mil on first error, uncheck the box if you dont want to see the check engine light, but it must set a maf code, verify this before making changes to the VE, then set the high rpm disable to 8000, it can be found under Engine>Airflow>Dynamic

i think my issue was that i had my afr set wrong and i was using a 3 bar map sensor in a 1 bar ve, i was told 5 years ago that the 3 bar is what i needed, wrong i know, and i have a 102mm china (trump voice) throttle body which is hard to set up to make idle right, i think im close to having that idling right, now my driver side o2 has or is trying to die on me, i have a new one coming should be here tomorow, ill put it in and redo my ve tuning with good sensors and then put the ve to the main tune, i think my maf is fine as far as tuning, but can do that to if you think i should ill post a update on both either tomorrow or tuesday, having alot of personal things going on, i lost a dear friend he was 75, great man. like a dad to me. hated having to be the one to find him. but it was a honor. fly high ron fly high

yes sir, i learned that from you tube, on how to disable the maf.

in the under and over speed idle adaptives i set those like that thinking i could help the idle, i have 102mm throttle body on this thing i think its more trouble then its worth. i did to many mods to my build when i built this truck 6 years ago, i should have just swapped the good v6 4.3 motor i had in to this truck cause thats what it had was 4,3. but my friend at the time before he passed away he was a big hot rodder back in a day, he was a heck of a mechanic, we built alot old school chevy motors. these ls are a totally diffrent type of motors. im learning tho. hard head that i am. i thank you guys for helping me.

i think ones i get the heads on it and the new injectors and i want to super charge this thing, and a dyno tune bye blevins tuning. i think this truck could get up to upper 500 to 600 hp. she runs close to about 300 hp now. jus dont want to hurt the rings. alot money in this thing. i know everyone in here spent some dollars.

this is the ve tune i want to us what u guys think

It would be most beneficial to get a better throttle body. Those chinese ones will drive you crazy just to get a half decent idle.
102mm is way overkill for a 5.3 anyway.

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Originally Posted by mychevyisntheavy

its not that i dont listen to anyones advice, how can it pull timing when i have all the tables set the same?

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Understanding how the PCM works helps.
Just cause you have HI/LOW spark tables the same doesnt matter.

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Originally Posted by RDF1

Understanding how the PCM works helps.
Just cause you have HI/LOW spark tables the same doesnt matter.

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And he also needs to always remember that there are only a small portions of the tables available through HPT and there can always be modifiers that can't be seen.

You need to set these to "MIL On First Error" as i stated before or else you cannot guarantee you are actually in speed density mode.

Attachment 162817

yep im gonna be taking it off.

i just loaded up the tune dhoagland gave me to try its alot lower on the spark tables. i put it in speed density to see if i can get the ve set up for my truck.

OMGGGGGG,,,,,,,,,IVE NEVER SEEN THE VE BE SO GREENNNNNNNN. I TOOK THAT TRUMP VOICE CHINAAAA......THROTTLE JUNK BODY OFF.,,,,,AND OMGGGGG.. GREEENNN FOR DAYS. I HAD TO GRING OUT THE SPOT FOR THE AIR TO MOVE THREW THE LIL PLATE I HAD GOT OFF OF AMAZON, ill take a pic of the set up i have and show you guys, but i think now ill be able to tune the ve the right way, i havent drove it yet just started it up, set the tps grind the plate starting the ve from the og table i think imy knock days are over. which man really was only one or two spots on the ve, but knock is knock and we cant have that. i know i know i should hAVE listen to u guys about the china tbody man i just wanted it to work. now im stock stuff other than the headers and cam , timing chain, fuel rails, so ill drive to work tomorrow morning and its in e now. so again guys i know i should have listen to you. thanks for not giving up on me. i wont be using that shit no more. anybody want to buy it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mychevyisntheavy

OMGGGGGG,,,,,,,,,IVE NEVER SEEN THE VE BE SO GREENNNNNNNN. I TOOK THAT TRUMP VOICE CHINAAAA......THROTTLE JUNK BODY OFF.,,,,,AND OMGGGGG.. GREEENNN FOR DAYS. I HAD TO GRING OUT THE SPOT FOR THE AIR TO MOVE THREW THE LIL PLATE I HAD GOT OFF OF AMAZON, ill take a pic of the set up i have and show you guys, but i think now ill be able to tune the ve the right way, i havent drove it yet just started it up, set the tps grind the plate starting the ve from the og table i think imy knock days are over. which man really was only one or two spots on the ve, but knock is knock and we cant have that. i know i know i should hAVE listen to u guys about the china tbody man i just wanted it to work. now im stock stuff other than the headers and cam , timing chain, fuel rails, so ill drive to work tomorrow morning and its in e now. so again guys i know i should have listen to you. thanks for not giving up on me. i wont be using that shit no more. anybody want to buy it.

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Imagine that was a customers vehicle and you have all that labor time added up.
Then another customer brings the same setup to you and you now know how crappy those parts combinations are.
Would you tell them to just buy good stuff or would you waste your time trying to make it work knowing how big of a pain in the butt it is.

im old 1967 born stared driving in the mid 80s had few camaros, built the engines in all of them, these ls motors are a different breed of motor. but i love how they sound. im still going go with my new injectors and heads and my be new bigger headers. id love to super charge it. i thing the tranny would hold up. now the rear end that would be the old g80. so no i dont think it would. heads injectors headers dyno tune. the truck is fun to drive she loves going 80 and 90 mph. just hope now the knock is behind me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mychevyisntheavy

im old 1967 born stared driving in the mid 80s had few camaros, built the engines in all of them, these ls motors are a different breed of motor. but i love how they sound. im still going go with my new injectors and heads and my be new bigger headers. id love to super charge it. i thing the tranny would hold up. now the rear end that would be the old g80. so no i dont think it would. heads injectors headers dyno tune. the truck is fun to drive she loves going 80 and 90 mph. just hope now the knock is behind me.

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Your not that old....
What type of supercharger?
The rear end is strong enough if you put a Eaton TrueTrac diff in it.
Transmission will be a shot in the dark on if it will hold up.

its been doing great so far.. 4l80e. with a 3600 ptc billet stall. trans temps run around 170* my engine runs 180* on hwy speeds and the fast dont come on unless the ac is on or i drive in the street. just hope i have the knock issue over. no matter what im gonna change the heads , and the injectors and do a dyno tune. so it will be fixed just might not be by me. id like the look of the lsa,s the caddy types. but anyone would be great loung as its undered 4000 bucks

Ah. I thought i saw 4l60 in your Sig.
The issue with the LSA blower is you have to run the adapter plates for cathedral heads and that causes issue.

Thought about turbo?

a guys i do have a question? on tuning do i go into the (special functions) and turn off the learn trims in their also?

IF you have the tune setup correctly you dont have to go into special functions. Only reason to do that is to clear fuel trims.

ok thanks, should i add like 10% to the ve or just run it as it is in speed density. with long and short trims off, maf is off (error on first) and set to (1) , dynmaic set to 10.000 dfco is off. the normal things . i just want to know should i bump up the % of the ve ?

Just drive it and see.. I dont know how your VE is setup currently so cant tell you what to adjust. Just drive it easy and see what it does. Dont go out and do a 30 second WOT pull.