Hey, I am looking for Injector Data on the Bosch Green Giant 42lb/hr Injectors.
Attachment 58803
They are going in Chevy Cruze 1.4L Turbo.
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Hey, I am looking for Injector Data on the Bosch Green Giant 42lb/hr Injectors.
Attachment 58803
They are going in Chevy Cruze 1.4L Turbo.
So still looking for information on these injectors, but also would like someone to give me a bit of advice on the IFR Table for these 1.4L Turbos.
Attachment 58853
I would like to know if this is the correct way to scale the injectors for these engines.
It has the FPCM that controls fuel pressure. So am I supposed to set stock value actual fuel pressure to 58psi which would be the fuel pressure for High Flow mode, Code Engine mode, Default mode, Fail mode, and Cranking mode?
Still looking for Injector Offset information and some advice on Pulse Correction Tables.
So after looking at it closer now, that information is not correct.
The injector calculator I was using is for a Manifold Vacuum based IFR tables.
So I am also in need of a Injector Calculator for the Fuel Pressure based IFR tables.
Sorry for all the confusion.
Wow, I am truly sorry for any confusions. Just been having a off day, I guess.
Here is a screenshot of how the 42lb/hr injectors are supposed to be scaled in the IFR table.
Attachment 58857
It is based to simple math for scaling the injectors.
New Flow=Old Flow x (New Pressure/Old Pressure)^.5
Example: 42lb/hr @ 43.5psi, need to know what it is @ 58psi. So take 58 divided by 43.5. Gives you 1.33333. Take the square root of 1.33333. Gives you 1.1547005. Then multiply by 42. Gives you 48.497421. So 48.5lb/hr @ 58psi is your answer. And you just have to go through and insert each pressure into that equation to get your new IFR.
Once again sorry for all the nonsense.
yea good luck with the offset though. the offset data is strictly for the tested pressure and when the pressure increases in the rail it affects the low voltage and short pulse offset data. you will have to get close then tune them in which is going to be a royal pain in the ass given your fueling is based off of virtual correction.
as i have said to many before you...without having them tested to the desired parameters its going to be a long process. good luck
Awesome lol, sounds like I am going to have fun.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
iirc there was an injector offset guide posted in here. its a document that describes how to do it without sending the data out. just have to search for it
Thanks, I will search for it.
So I contacted ZZP asking for information on these injectors. And they replied with......
Is this true or at least a good point to start from? The injectors were purchased from themQuote:
The only data I have available is directly on the product page.
You can just scale the stock injector offset the % difference in size, and they will work properly.
good point to start from, yes.
if you need them characterized then call deatschworks...iirc its roughly $80 with a sample injector from your batch.
Yeah, I was thinking about doing that. Just haven't personally sent them any before.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
So I will call them on Monday of next week. And get a plan together with them on shipping the injectors to them.
Thanks man.
these injectors flow 310g/min @ 43.5psi. You will have to convert that data to the car's fuel rail pressure. I think i have that spreadsheet. brb
The problem with the spreadsheet you attached, it is used for IFR tables that are based off of Manifold Vacuum/Pressure.Quote:
Originally Posted by kissmy05ss
Attachment 58945
The vehicle I am scaling uses a IFR table based off of Pressure Delta(fuel pressure).
Attachment 58944
So that spreadsheet won't help. And I already have the IFR table scaling dialed in. Just looking for the offset, pulse corrections, and limit data for these injectors.
Any luck getting these things dialed in? Got mine installed today, going to start tuning them in tomorrow hopefully.
No, I am sending the injectors out to Deatschwerks to have them flow and characterized. Let me know how it turns out for you.Quote:
Originally Posted by soad85
So I might have found something on these! Would like someone to verify?
Attachment 59157
http://www.boschdealer.com/specsheets/0280155968cs.jpg
Green Giants Bosch 0280155968
Attachment 59158
https://performanceparts.ford.com/pa...-9593-f302.pdf
Green Tops Ford M-9593-F302
no...these are ford injector spec sheets. there is a pile of math required to convert it over to a gm specification. i had that data saved already for gt40 swap applications but i knew it wouldn't work so i didn't offer it.
Is the spreadsheet correct for the 0280155968 injectors? The two spreadsheets show the exact same data?Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
Would using this conversion work for converting Ford Data to GM Data with these injectors?
Attachment 59174
those are the bosch green tops for fords. little different than you green bodies.
you can use the spreadsheet as long as your axis is the same as the results field in the generator.
you really should send them out and not guess. just because data is out for an injector doesn't mean your set is going to flow close to that data.
Yeah, I completely agree and understand. They are in the process of being characterized by DeatschWerks.Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster
I just ran across those two spreadsheets that are exactly identical data. And I knew I had the injector data for the Ford Bosch Green Tops already(Greg Banish data). And was looking for others knowledge whether or not that data that I found is correct or not.
gotcha
That's the same info I was able to find on those injectors, as well as:
Injector Data Sheet: 280 155 968, 42 #/hr Skinny Greens
Fuel Pressure: 44
Flow rate: 45.0 #/hr
Minimum PW @ 44 psi: 1.173
Offset Compensation versus Battery Voltage:
6.4 Volts: 4285 usec
8.0 Volts: 2168 usec
9.6 Volts: 1465 usec
11.2 Volts: 1096 usec
12.8 Volts: 839 usec
14.4 Volts: 655 usec
15.0 Volts: 596 usec
Short PW Compensation versus Pulse Width:
0.015 msec: -118 usec
0.244 msec: -101 usec
0.488 msec: -82 usec
0.732 msec: -64 usec
0.976 msec: -46 usec
1.220 msec: -27 usec
1.460 msec: -10 usec
1.708 msec: 0 usec
1.950 msec: 0 usec
2.197 msec: 0 usec
2.440 msec: 0 usec
2.685 msec: 0 usec
2.929 msec: 0 usec
3.170 msec: 0 usec
3.410 msec: 0 usec
3.660 msec: 0 usec
3.900 msec: 0 usec
Which jives with the other table, tested at 39.5 PSI so it's definitely good data.
Reading the EFILive E85 thread for the Cruze, two people claimed L96 injector (6.0 silverado 42# flex fuel injectors) data plugs right in and works fine. Throwing my hat in the ring, it does NOT run at all with those numbers. I had doubts but tried it anyways, for shits and grins. Runs incredibly lean, barely idles, don't bother.
Converted the Ford tables to GM, had to tweak my MAF a little (ported TB and Intake) but they are damn good starting points. Tweaking the min pulse width adder as well a bit, but it's also pretty close.
Plugged in data for the tested pressures, copied over to HPT, interpolated the rows between, done.
Im new to tuning injectors, but these things are a bitch to get to idle correctly on E10 fuel. I could get WOT and part-throttle dialed in solid, but idle was always a little rich for my likiing. Filled up with a tank of E85 and I'm finally getting nice CL trims and WOT AFR is dead nuts. Idles a little rich still but I'm not done tuning yet.
IMO it's definitely worth the $100 for good data, or find some injectors with good reliable data publicly available. I've got a solid 8 hours of logging and tuning just to get the trims to -5%-0%
I'm curious how the characterization data worked out for you. I find it extremely difficult to believe that Deutschworks would have the equipment necessary to flow test an injector to SAE J1832 standards. And even if they did, they would have to flow several samples, not just one injector, to get good average characterization data. The amount of testing necessary to find this data accurately seems like it would be worth a lot more than $100. Greg Banish has a flowbench he's been working on bringing up to SAE standards for characterization testing. I believe he said it would probably be worth around $800 to derive this data.
That's too much to make it worthwhile for any one user. Although now that I think of it, the tuning community isn't one user. If a bunch of us pitched in to have a particular injector tested, that could bring the price down per investor. IF he was even willing to do it, it would probably take a couple sets of injectors, lots of time, etc. But seeing as how the aftermarket doesn't really have any good characterization data for those Bosch Green Giant EV6 42# injectors, I bet we could garnish support for such a venture.
FYI, you can't try to scale up or down the injector offset table based on pressure. Although doing that would probably push the data in the right direction, I doubt its a predictable and linear output. Since the injector offset time is a product of voltage, you could predict that more voltage would increase the offset. But by how much would not be known without data. And we don't even have basic voltage offset data to work with, as far as I know. And then to figure out how the different fuel pressures alter that offset data would be a whole other challenge.
Another remote possibility, that would produce even more accurate results, would be to collectively petition Ford Racing to offer the Green Giant. If they offer it, they will also offer the characterization data for it. But Ford Racing does not seem interested in continuing to offer any EV6 injectors, since Ford no longer uses EV6's in their new cars.
Yet another option is that we could send injectors to the same labs that Ford Racing sends them to for testing. But I'm guessing we would be talking several thousand dollars for testing. See what a gift Ford Racing gave us on those other injectors?
[B][U]Does any one have data for these Green Giant Bosch injectors?
I need the Offset vs. PW vs. MAP table . I can not find the info anywhere.