5.7 hemi 6.4 cam

[Josh19881]

I am very new with tuning hemi's. I'm trying to learn best I can here, I am going to install a 6.4 non mds cam in a 2013 ram 5.7. I disabled mds in the tune and found some posts about curing throttle lag.

My question here is, has anyone swapped a 6.4 non mds cam in a 5.7? From what I read about it is the tune is close and changes need to be made for vvt.. I'm not sure what changes I should be doing.
I am trying to get the tune close so I'm not stuck tuning for a long time after I do the swap if possible since it's the main vehicle. Thank you for any help!

[white1]

It should be tuned properly. That being said, it will run fine on the 5.7 tune. I've had a few customers bring their vehicle to be tuned after this swap, and they drive surprisingly well with no tuning

[Josh19881]

I've read about others that had issues running rich or lean in areas of the tune. And I totally got lost reading about the vvt timing. Looks like a lot of posts about that.

[PurpleRam]

I've read about others that had issues running rich or lean in areas of the tune. And I totally got lost reading about the vvt timing. Looks like a lot of posts about that.

You will have that, but it's not detrimental at the "entry level" My transmission guy(can't call him a tranny guy now-a-days) has been running his 2012 ram around on the stock tune 5.7 since we did his truck back in 2011, 130k miles since swap truck only has 140 k on it. HP tuners wasn't that "evolved yet" . we blew up a pre-production SRT392 on our dyno doing endurance tests for FCA, pulled the cam swapped it into the ram and never looked back.

My personal 2014 Ram I ran a 392Auto cam and the MDS system for a little over a month before I said screw it and tuned it.

A tune will take advantage of the swap......Now two things , 1) if your running an 8speed , look at the 6.4SRT shift schedules for trans "tuning" if you find the need to take full advantage ..if it's 6sp , I recommend reading this thread , and for FULL advantage contact JimP , he's really good with the later RFE trans.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-for-the-65RFE

2nd , and it's word of caution , 2014 FCA changed suppliers for the 5.7 springs, the (OEM)09-13 springs are a thicker coil wire , it will bind if you find your self in the 6200+ RPM area.., you can visit , but don't stay for dinner..... 99% of those who do this swap will not experience it, there's that much slop in the early lifters , but if you are like me and believe life begins at 6500rpms it will get expensive.

[white1]

You will have that, but it's not detrimental at the "entry level" My transmission guy(can't call him a tranny guy now-a-days) has been running his 2012 ram around on the stock tune 5.7 since we did his truck back in 2011, 130k miles since swap truck only has 140 k on it. HP tuners wasn't that "evolved yet" . we blew up a pre-production SRT392 on our dyno doing endurance tests for FCA, pulled the cam swapped it into the ram and never looked back.

My personal 2014 Ram I ran a 392Auto cam and the MDS system for a little over a month before I said screw it and tuned it.

A tune will take advantage of the swap......Now two things , 1) if your running an 8speed , look at the 6.4SRT shift schedules for trans "tuning" if you find the need to take full advantage ..if it's 6sp , I recommend reading this thread , and for FULL advantage contact JimP , he's really good with the later RFE trans.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-for-the-65RFE

2nd , and it's word of caution , 2014 FCA changed suppliers for the 5.7 springs, the (OEM)09-13 springs are a thicker coil wire , it will bind if you find your self in the 6200+ RPM area.., you can visit , but don't stay for dinner..... 99% of those who do this swap will not experience it, there's that much slop in the early lifters , but if you are like me and believe life begins at 6500rpms it will get expensive.

Plenty of good information here. I personally recommend changing springs no matter what. After long discussions with several smart guys its my personal opinion that the springs are the leading cause of the lifter/cam failure

[Josh19881]

You will have that, but it's not detrimental at the "entry level" My transmission guy(can't call him a tranny guy now-a-days) has been running his 2012 ram around on the stock tune 5.7 since we did his truck back in 2011, 130k miles since swap truck only has 140 k on it. HP tuners wasn't that "evolved yet" . we blew up a pre-production SRT392 on our dyno doing endurance tests for FCA, pulled the cam swapped it into the ram and never looked back.

My personal 2014 Ram I ran a 392Auto cam and the MDS system for a little over a month before I said screw it and tuned it.

A tune will take advantage of the swap......Now two things , 1) if your running an 8speed , look at the 6.4SRT shift schedules for trans "tuning" if you find the need to take full advantage ..if it's 6sp , I recommend reading this thread , and for FULL advantage contact JimP , he's really good with the later RFE trans.
https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-for-the-65RFE

2nd , and it's word of caution , 2014 FCA changed suppliers for the 5.7 springs, the (OEM)09-13 springs are a thicker coil wire , it will bind if you find your self in the 6200+ RPM area.., you can visit , but don't stay for dinner..... 99% of those who do this swap will not experience it, there's that much slop in the early lifters , but if you are like me and believe life begins at 6500rpms it will get expensive.

Plenty of good information here. I personally recommend changing springs no matter what. After long discussions with several smart guys its my personal opinion that the springs are the leading cause of the lifter/cam failure

It's a 2013 ram 1500 with the 6 speed auto. I planned on doing the 6.4 manual trans cam(non mds). I am not one to half ass a build so springs are going to be the mopar performance springs. So shouldn't have issues with coil bind.

This is going to be used as a daily driver honestly. Not a race car by any means lol. Pull a trailer now and then. If afr is close enough to be safe and timing is good with the stock tune I would be happy to leave it alone or do some minor tweaks. My main concern is the vvt that I don't understand at all..

I haven't installed it yet, but currently I am playing around with trying to get the throttle response cleaned up and even that is a bit confusing. So many posts of different ways people go about that.

I really do appreciate all your advice! Very helpful!

[PurpleRam]

Plenty of good information here. I personally recommend changing springs no matter what. After long discussions with several smart guys its my personal opinion that the springs are the leading cause of the lifter/cam failure

When we did Spintron testing for FCA regarding the issue, back in 2012, they know what the issue is, but since it's an Emissions device , can't fix it.....band aide yes, out right fix NO, and we all know how our Government feels about Gas engines...sooo fixing the root cause is not an option.

it's perfect storm deal, some of it's springs especially 09-13 , some of it's oiling. the rest of it's the one nobody thinks about......the VVT motion it's self , for simplistic purposes, at one point the VVT/PCM is pulling the lobe away from the Lifter, the Valve springs lose control of the contact between the roller wheel and Lobe surface, so it's bounces just slightly, couple that with low oiling due to the MDS solenoid being active. , most G3 Hemi(s) I build, I "Groove/Notch" the lifter bore like it was an old school Flat tappet cam.

[Josh19881]

When we did Spintron testing for FCA regarding the issue, back in 2012, they know what the issue is, but since it's an Emissions device , can't fix it.....band aide yes, out right fix NO, and we all know how our Government feels about Gas engines...sooo fixing the root cause is not an option.

it's perfect storm deal, some of it's springs especially 09-13 , some of it's oiling. the rest of it's the one nobody thinks about......the VVT motion it's self , for simplistic purposes, at one point the VVT/PCM is pulling the lobe away from the Lifter, the Valve springs lose control of the contact between the roller wheel and Lobe surface, so it's bounces just slightly, couple that with low oiling due to the MDS solenoid being active. , most G3 Hemi(s) I build, I "Groove/Notch" the lifter bore like it was an old school Flat tappet cam.

I plan on replacing the timing chain while it's apart and using a hellcat oil pump. Also hear great things about the redline oil. I'd like to not have the problem again, at least not for a long time. Would a vvt limiter or lock be a good idea when I do the swap?

My 2 main concerns are the vvt tuning aspect and the NN tuning that I have no idea about. Been doing alot of reading on the subject and some disable NN but have problems due to ve and cold start being way off and cam timing changes ve table.. Then I read how people mess with injector pw and pe to dial it in.. Any advice on how I should approach this being a beginner with this platform?

[rays04gtx]

Would a vvt limiter or lock be a good idea when I do the swap?

My 2 main concerns are the vvt tuning aspect and the NN tuning that I have no idea about. Been doing alot of reading on the subject and some disable NN but have problems due to ve and cold start being way off and cam timing changes ve table.. Then I read how people mess with injector pw and pe to dial it in.. Any advice on how I should approach this being a beginner with this platform?

VVT limiter/Lock................No ,

As for Injectors , unless you change to the 6.4 injectors , leave them alone, all the successful results happen in VE or NN.
Advice.....Read everything written By Hemituna , 06300CSRT8, Homer, there are a few others ...you'll figure them out ..... soak it all in, Log and Log and Log till you have too much data. make small changes , single changes, and the feature Calabration Details.... Use it write it all down , tables , what you did - + X divide values . it's over whelming at 1st ....but that Ahh Ha moment is worth it.

This may sound odd , but I've found it works well, every new vehicle I tune , I buy a USB stick for it and Keep the ORG tune on it...and Hide it.

and just because people don't respond to a question you may have, it means that the one with answers might not have logged in a month......there are No dumb questions

[luciddeath]

I do remote tuning, can get you up in an hour and finalized in 2 or 3 days DEMIGOD on fb

[Josh19881]

VVT limiter/Lock................No ,

As for Injectors , unless you change to the 6.4 injectors , leave them alone, all the successful results happen in VE or NN.
Advice.....Read everything written By Hemituna , 06300CSRT8, Homer, there are a few others ...you'll figure them out ..... soak it all in, Log and Log and Log till you have too much data. make small changes , single changes, and the feature Calabration Details.... Use it write it all down , tables , what you did - + X divide values . it's over whelming at 1st ....but that Ahh Ha moment is worth it.

This may sound odd , but I've found it works well, every new vehicle I tune , I buy a USB stick for it and Keep the ORG tune on it...and Hide it.

and just because people don't respond to a question you may have, it means that the one with answers might not have logged in a month......there are No dumb questions

Not changing injectors. Just don't want to disable NN and try to tune with ve table and never get it. From what I have read the ve table will need to be different in each cam position. Effectively throwing off afr. I do not plan to pay for the NN training and try to tune like that. Hope this makes sense.

Also I have done alot of tuning with the ls platform. Much more simple, to me.. Thank you for your help.