6.0 Powerstroke Transmission Defueling During Shifts 5R110

[Priceche2009]

I have a 2004 Ford Excursion with a 6.0 Powerstroke. Big fuel and big air, I have a tune that is making good power but I cannot keep the truck from pulling fuel during shifts. I feel like I have all the torque limiters turned off and have pressures turned up but for some reason the truck just slowly pulls a ton of power, makes the shift, and then gives the power back. Attached is my tune, a data log, and the screen I use to log. I also have a video of the dash that really shows how bad it is. Any help is appreciated. Excursion_Layout.Layout.xmlMason_Dixon_10_23_22_Run_1.hplExcursion_Low_Idle_10_22_23_Trans.hpt https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Rd5tL19zYvw

[JaegerWrenching]

Try this Excursion_Low_Idle_10_22_23_Trans JwRev1.hpt Also put some more timing on the big end and watch it sing!

[speedyshifterboy66]

what is your setup in the excursion if you dont mind me asking?

[Priceche2009]

This is an old thread but I am still having trans issues, specifically related to TC lockup. I can't keep a converter from slipping to save my life. Although I did seem to find all the fuel limiters so that isn't an issue anymore.

Does anyone have info on how to jack up TC lock up pressure? I have a lockup switch installed and from a 40 roll I can slip the converter ~20% by calculating vehicle speed vs engine speed and gear ratio. Luckily we have a good converter guy who is helping to try to figure some stuff out and keeps fixing converters. So far I have line pressure at about 380 psi confirmed by a gauge, upped the TCC gain to 0.4 and changed the TCC translation so that it thinks it needs 1.0 amps to get just 64 psi of pressure, so basically it is commanding full pressure from the get go.

New gasket kit is on the way, new converter is on the way, and hope to reseal everything and test this week. Thoughts are appreciated.

Someone asked about setup a few years ago...

Two S366's feeding an S476/96 in the valley, dual HPOPs, 430/150s, ODawgs intake, billet everything in the trans, etc...

[TransGo Robert]

The actual total clutch apply pressure is: clutch apply pressue, minus clutch release pressure. The computer command to the solenoid increases or decrease the release pressure. Once you command the release pressure to be zero, you are at max you cannot increase the apply pressure via tuning. Running 380 psi of line is insane and reduces the available volume to build up pressure and apply the clutch in the converter.

[Priceche2009]

@TransGo Robert I raised line pressure because that is what Andy Warren said he likes to see his trans run at. Latest updated parts seem to have fixed converter slip despite tuning. I understand apply and release, my basic strategy has been to slightly increase apply upshift pressure in relation to torque, and remove all offgoing pressure. I was recommended to leave the 3-5 offgoing a little higher but it feels soft so I think I will take that to 0 as well unless you recommend otherwise. Clutch fill times and slip times I basically just cut in half from the stock values that I have. But honestly the biggest change to shift consistency that I have seen was disabling the adaptive shifts. WAY more consistent. But now my question is what is the best way to make sure that the shifts are happy? If adaptive cannot make changes then I want to confirm shifts are good. I am using HP tuners to log and I can view solenoid pressures over time, but honestly I have no idea what is good. It is shifting so great right now though, I might just put my head in the sand and send it.

[TransGo Robert]

@TransGo Robert I raised line pressure because that is what Andy Warren said he likes to see his trans run at. Latest updated parts seem to have fixed converter slip despite tuning. I understand apply and release, my basic strategy has been to slightly increase apply upshift pressure in relation to torque, and remove all offgoing pressure. I was recommended to leave the 3-5 offgoing a little higher but it feels soft so I think I will take that to 0 as well unless you recommend otherwise. Clutch fill times and slip times I basically just cut in half from the stock values that I have. But honestly the biggest change to shift consistency that I have seen was disabling the adaptive shifts. WAY more consistent. But now my question is what is the best way to make sure that the shifts are happy? If adaptive cannot make changes then I want to confirm shifts are good. I am using HP tuners to log and I can view solenoid pressures over time, but honestly I have no idea what is good. It is shifting so great right now though, I might just put my head in the sand and send it.

If you post a log with all the transmission parameters (your original one was missing TCC pressure command, input, intermediate, output RPM, TCC slip, gear commanded) I can look at it and tell you what I think of the shifts. I can't however help with modifying things in the tune to make it better, I don't know enough about tuning. But I know about transmission and can easily tell if it is doing what it should be doing and if the solenoid ramping up and down command is correct or not.

As for the converter clutch apply pressure you can only bring it up quicker or slower in the tune, you cannot actually increase the pressure. At 1 amp you will get the max pressure it is calibrated for internally no matter what you do with line pressure. Even though all the solenoids are fed line pressure, raising line does not raise TCC apply pressure because they put an orifice in the solenoid feed limiting the flow to it so that it does not flood, and then the solenoid output is limited by the maximum the solenoid can flow due to its internal design. To raise the actual apply pressure to the clutch you have to either put in a heavier spring in the TCC control valve lineup and or a smaller balance bushing. But from what you say it sounds like the clutch is holding now with the latest converter, so you should be good on that front.

[Priceche2009]

@TransGo Robert attached is a ~40% throttle pull showing the 2-3 and the 3-5 under power. It also looks like lockup happens on the 3-5. I would love to hear what you think. I am trying to find my boosted launch from this weekend. Once I find that file I will post as well.

20240727 2.hpl

[Priceche2009]

@TransGo Robert Attached is two full throttle launches. They both only include a 2-3 shift. Boosted launch, manual lockup switch, then 2-3 shift. The first file is a better run but the shift/lockup kind of all happens together. The second file has a clear lockup and then shift. Let me know what you think.


Carrol_County_7_27_24_1.hpl

Carrol_County_7_27_24_3.hpl

[TransGo Robert]

@TransGo Robert Attached is two full throttle launches. They both only include a 2-3 shift. Boosted launch, manual lockup switch, then 2-3 shift. The first file is a better run but the shift/lockup kind of all happens together. The second file has a clear lockup and then shift. Let me know what you think.


Carrol_County_7_27_24_1.hpl

Carrol_County_7_27_24_3.hpl

Are you logging this with your laptop or using the standalone way? I ask because data rate is too slow, which is what you get when logging with the stand alone device instead of the laptop. With the poor data rate, it gives us readings that are physically impossible. Here's a screenshot of the last movie that ends in 3, you can see you are at WOT making a 2-3 and the input shaft is turning 704 RPM FASTER than the engine, which obviously is a physical impossibility when you are under acceleration. TCC.png

Unless you can get better data we can't tell what is happening with the lock-up. At first glance it seems to do what it is asked to do but we need better data to know for sure. Also when you log, instead of locking the TCC slip in %, log it in RPM so that we don't' have to use a math channel like I did to calculate the slip % is pretty useless when assessing if the clutch can hold or not.

Oh, and I just want to make sure I got this right. The TCC solenoid command on there (Pressure G Cmd) is meaningless, you are controlling lock-up with a manual switch fully grounding the solenoid, is that correct?

[Priceche2009]

Yes manual switch grounding the solenoid. We are using a computer to log. I didn?t realize we could change the log rate. I will have to look into that and post another log.

[TransGo Robert]

Yes manual switch grounding the solenoid. We are using a computer to log. I didn?t realize we could change the log rate. I will have to look into that and post another log.

Yea, I am not sure how all that stuff work, I mainly only look at logs, I never get to use the scanner itself and log thing myself. But it sis my understanding that the poling rate can be modified and that broadcast channels have a different polling rate then the ones that are not. Hopefully you can easily tweak it to log faster so that the data we get is usable.

[JaegerWrenching]

Right click on the PID, go to polling rate, and select the numerically highest hrtz rate or smallest millisecond value. Also drop down to less PID's and log only necessary things to also help even further with refresh rate.

[Priceche2009]

Thanks @JaegerWrenching I am just seeing this and will try this week. I looked and most of the channels are set at 5 Hz and I can adjust to 100 Hz, that should make a big difference. I am currently logging ~50 channels. Will reducing the channel number help? I didn't feel like 50 was too bad.

[Priceche2009]

@jaegerWrenching here is the latest I have. Not worth much tho, in the middle of the pull the fuel pump relay burnt up and blew the seals out of both atmospheric chargers. But if you could look at and see if the data rate is better? I believe we got everything switched to the highest sample rate available.woodstock1 (1).hpl

[TransGo Robert]

@jaegerWrenching here is the latest I have. Not worth much tho, in the middle of the pull the fuel pump relay burnt up and blew the seals out of both atmospheric chargers. But if you could look at and see if the data rate is better? I believe we got everything switched to the highest sample rate available.woodstock1 (1).hpl

Maybe it is not a data rate acquisition after all, i did not notice the data being faster then before but the more I look at this the more I think that's maybe not the problem. The data is simply bunkers during the 2-3 shift. The input shaft speed senor reading appears to be some sort of made up reading. Looking at the Engine RPM you can see the shift clearly happened, yet the input shaft RPM reading does not drop, and ends up looking as if somehow while accelerating the input shaft was turning faster then the engine. I think it is a VCM scanner issue or something like that, it must be reading the intermediate shaft speed sensor and reporting it as if it was the input shaft speed sensor or something like that.