Durango 5.7L to 6.4L Swap

[Enthusiastic]

I have a 2017 Durango 5.7L to 6.4L swap with the 2.9L Whipple. The Whipple calibration and kit with the 63lb injectors is for my previous 5.7L engine on the PCM with 5.7L OS associated with my VIN. The new 6.4L is a stock displacement drop-in with forged internals and 9.7:1 CR. The camshaft is a Comp 270 XFI 222/230 (222deg intake duration/230deg exhaust duration). The cam has a ground-in advance of 4deg on the intake. Because of the cam and high lift, the springs were upgraded as required with VVT cam phaser limited to 7deg (14deg crank). The heads were ported by HHP-BES (390CFM flow bench). I also have a 90mm TB, Kooks headers, and 2,800 stall converter on the stock 8HP70 trans.

I modified a Comp Cams crank/cam timing chart with my cam card data and notes to help me better understand the timing. I do not know how to translate this data into the HPTuners airflow settings under the "Variable Camshaft" and "Neural Network" sections.

Idle at 2,000RPM is stable with 22" vacuum but not stable below that. The idle AFR is very rich with 0.5 to 0.8 Lambda and STFT = -33% to -15% when approaching 0.8 Lambda. This is with the 63lb Siemens injectors @[email protected]. It seems to be tune related airflow and timing associated with a cam upgrade. Any ideas?

!Airflow_Variable-Camshaft.jpg
!Airflow_Neural-Network.jpg
Comp-Cams_6.4L-Hemi_Cam-PN-201-426-17_Grind-270VVI15_Crank-Cam-Degree-Chart_Enthusiast.jpg

[LilSick]

The first thing that was apparent to me is that the tune still thinks the cam has 47 deg of crank adv/ret when it only has 14. That might be fine and dandy i have no idea.

Far as their "4 deg ground in adv" dont let that throw you. You checked the centerline of the cam when you installed it yeah? Centerline is centerline, the installer sets that.

*why not post the tune and a log"?

[Enthusiastic]

The first thing that was apparent to me is that the tune still thinks the cam has 47 deg of crank adv/ret when it only has 14. That might be fine and dandy i have no idea.

Far as their "4 deg ground in adv" dont let that throw you. You checked the centerline of the cam when you installed it yeah? Centerline is centerline, the installer sets that.

*why not post the tune and a log"?

LilSick,

Thanks for your post. Absolutely. All good points.

47 Degrees of Crankshaft Advance/Retard when the camshaft is Phase Limited to 7 degrees (14 degrees crank):
Wow. The installer that tried to tune it may have missed the limiter restriction. I hope changing this setting will help.

Camshaft Installation:
The engine was built by HHP so the cam "should be":
1) The correct camshaft shipped from Comp Cams to HHP, and HHP verified, and installed it.
2) The camshaft was installed correctly and verified.

Since HHP/BES builds a lot of performance engines, I have a higher confidence it was done correctly and verified. Kind of like a surgeon who has only operated 4 times Vs the one who has done 400. However, I would like to verify the cam timing, duration, and lift without removing the heads as it is a warranty product and I don't want to open it up unless absolutely necessary.

The 18% overdrive ATI balancer they installed and pinned to the crank does have degree level index lines. So, I am wondering if it is possible to pull the valve cover and cylinder #1 plug to find TDC and then measure valve lift and timing to verify the camshaft is the correct part # and installed properly. If this is possible, and cylinder #1 timing and lobes are correct, would it be necessary to check the other cylinders or would this be overkill and unlikely another lobe would be ground improper?

If I understand correctly this is how it would be tested assuming exactly 1.7:1 rocker arm ratio:
1) Cylinder #1 @TDC = max even overlap lift (intake and exhaust valve lift both at @0.085")
2) Intake centerline = 111 degrees ATDC = CW rotation 111 degrees after TDC @ 0.615" max valve lift
3) Exhaust centerline = 119 degrees BTDC = CCW rotation 119 degrees before TDC @ 0.609" max valve lift (adjusted on both sides from lobe peak down 0.050" to find center because of lobe dwell time).
4) Maybe there is also a way to test the cam timing with tune testing. The installer used a pressure transducer and scanner that recorded crank and cam position sensors as a sync trigger and measured the exhaust pulses relative to the crank position. This was very cool but not sure if it is the best method. It did show very low back pressure and great negative pressure pulse exhaust scavenging with the long tube headers and X-pipe/muffler installed.

The tune and log file is attached as requested. Thanks!

[white1]

Any time I personally tune cammed Hemi's, I disable NN and tune through VE. That could very likely be your issue. NN is still active, and your VE tables look stock

[Enthusiastic]

Any time I personally tune cammed Hemi's, I disable NN and tune through VE. That could very likely be your issue. NN is still active, and your VE tables look stock

OK. After tuning through VE, can NN be retaught and enabled or do most people leave it off?
Also, I noticed that if the displacement is changed to anything other than the stock 5.7L OS then ESP/TC is disabled. Does changing this value have benefit anyway? Thanks

[white1]

Once tuned on VE, I personally see no reason to try to go back to NN. I stay on VE with anything I tune with a cam.

There is no benefit to changing the displacement from stock if you are still stock displacement other than if for some reason you want traction control completely disabled. The downside is you lose airbags, ABS and any traction/stability control

[Enthusiastic]

OK. I was not sure if changing the displacement would impact any of the tuning tables. Thanks for confirming there is no reason to change the displacement unless I wanted to loose important functionality. However, the displacement is 6.4L (392ci). I left it at 5.7L so I would not lose the ABS/traction. I think this is an OS restriction thing. I am running the original 5.7L OS VIN and the engine was swapped to a 6.4L. The engine type and size were set to 6.4L.
Funny, it sounds like once you go VE you stay VE or something like that . Currently, NN is on but may need to turn off later when getting deeper . . .
Someone did provide me some data to fix the start and idle issue in one go with one log .
Changes were mostly with the Airflow, SD, VE tables. I was impressed. Solid idle, no chop, and no stumble when shifting into gear. This was not possible before. LT & ST trims are on the edge of AFR regulation at low rpm but great start.

This tuning stuff is so cool and I am humbled with my little experience. Thanks for your advice.

[white1]

If Im not mistaken you can change the engine size to 6.4 for the VE calculation, however once VE is dialed in that should not matter.

We generally use TSP, or Cam motion cams. I've not had good luck tuning them with NN on, so I've just made it a habit to tune all cams using VE

[Enthusiastic]

That makes sense. Thanks