2017 Focus RS EXhaust temp limit 2.3L

[alsdriftshop]

Hi guy and thank you in advance

My name Al.
I'm not new at tuning but my main platforms are stand alone systems. HPtuners is little new to me this is the 3rd car I tune or been trying.
car background.
the car end up at the shop with a bend rod. He installed a turbo smart wastegate/actuator with a 12psi spring but after tested the opening pressure it would open untill 23psi so he over boosted.

the owner got a stage 2 head and a mountune High Performance 2.3L Focus RS / Mustang Short Block, ETS intercooler kit, turbo smart blow off valve, new radiator, 1700cc injectos DWC and a Cat back.

Sense this is my very first ecoboost ecm/pcm tune I decided to get the tuning course by The tuning school. I've probably read the 2.3L part about 100 times and watch the main classes with horrible resolution by the way. Ive fallowed the book to the T and had read so many awesome information from a lot of you guys here.

Things had gotten better and after finding the fix to a few other limits now I have one more and I can not figure it out. exhaust limits issues.

wastegate was removed and made sure it was working correctly

2017 rs 2.3l exhast limits.hpl2017 rs 2.3l exhaust temp limits.hpt

[Seishuku]

Not at a computer right now, so I can't open anything... But just a guess: exhaust flange temp inverse table?

[alsdriftshop]

Thank you for response.
Table 44553? the Exh Temp / RPM ? but this table only reads up to 2500rpm and my cat exhaust temp only reads 950f

[Seishuku]

It'll be one of the tables to the right of that, has load values in it... I'd give you the parameter number, but I don't recall it. lol

[alsdriftshop]

Thank you for response.
I tried this and it did sounded better but cut in and out with the same limit but give me missfires and over speed code

[alsdriftshop]

you were right the load limit was too load low. I'm having a little trouble understanding timing adjustments, I know that the borderline tables is used based on the ignition source log. I think I got that the MBT tables are always the higher points, the borderline are what is used and the cylinder pressure are the limits what is set is what the ecm will never allow to do.
but when ever I change it even by a degree its all over the place. I lowered boost the ecm takes timing I add boost the ecm takes even more timing (-3 degrees retard timing EXAMPLE)
Am I missing something?

Thank you

[Bill88stang]

its a torque based ecm so it will use spark or boost to hit a certain value, sometimes its more spark less boost, other times its more boost less spark.

[alsdriftshop]

Thank you,

I'm currently working on the same car. it came back for a turbo upgrade. I had figured the temp issues, It turned out it was bad cat.

I out this on the dyno and fater few modifications I gained another 40hp but I should've gotten more with 5 psi of boost more.
Im getting a Turbo FMEM limits

2.3L close Deck Fully build block stock head.
1700cc injectors
4 bar map sensor
precision turbo upgrade
ETS inter cooler
ETS dowpipe



Driver Demand Limit Source Turbo FMEM
Torque Air Limit Turbo FMEM


FOCUS RS TURBO. 4BAR MAP REV3.hpt2017 FORD FOCUS RS NEW TURBO 289HP 343T REV 3.hpl

[Seishuku]

Probably just need to adjust the turbo model constants for higher flow.
Open up the turbo coefficient calculator from the menus and set flow figures for a best guess that it would be.
I think default is 40 lb/min flow, maybe try 60 or 80?

[alsdriftshop]

Probably just need to adjust the turbo model constants for higher flow.
Open up the turbo coefficient calculator from the menus and set flow figures for a best guess that it would be.
I think default is 40 lb/min flow, maybe try 60 or 80?

Thank you!
I did to 60 still encountered same than to 80 and its gone..

now adding timing and torque

[alsdriftshop]

Probably just need to adjust the turbo model constants for higher flow.
Open up the turbo coefficient calculator from the menus and set flow figures for a best guess that it would be.
I think default is 40 lb/min flow, maybe try 60 or 80?

I'm very new to Torque command ecu's especially ecoboost. can you please explain to me about igniting timing source please.

like now that the turbo FMEM limit is gone and I added timing to some of the borderline mapping tables to 2 egress I noticed the ignition timing source is cylinder pressure table.

Thank you so much

[Seishuku]

Cylinder pressure limit is ECM table #44616, on a built Focus RS you should be able to raise the upper load rows by at least 5 or 6 degrees, except for maybe at 2500RPM and 3500RPM (to help limit LSPI), maybe 2 degrees max there to be safe.

For an explanation of the spark advance selection, COBB has a pretty good article on that here:
https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wik...teSparkAdvance
It's for the tables and names are AccessPort relative, but things are close enough in HPTuners to make most of the info work.

[alsdriftshop]

Cylinder pressure limit is ECM table #44616, on a built Focus RS you should be able to raise the upper load rows by at least 5 or 6 degrees, except for maybe at 2500RPM and 3500RPM (to help limit LSPI), maybe 2 degrees max there to be safe.

For an explanation of the spark advance selection, COBB has a pretty good article on that here:
https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wik...teSparkAdvance
It's for the tables and names are AccessPort relative, but things are close enough in HPTuners to make most of the info work.

ure


After Using the turbo calculator I dont get any limitations but I noticed the timing source turns to Cylinder pressure

I am confused or Im doing it wrong. the cobb site explains that the ECU picks the table with the lowest, ignition is 7-2 degrees across from the Cyl press table but the values on my used mapping talbes is 2-3 degres and when I go up in timing to 4 I lose power

1 = MBT Timing (MBT)

2 = Borderline Timing (BL)

4 = Pre-Ignition Timing (PRE)

5 = Cylinder Pressure Timing (CYL)

The ECU will choose the lowest of these.

Any help or information will be greatly appreciated



here is the log

[Seishuku]

Just a quick look at sample in your log... At 5500RPM and 2.4 load you're at 5.3 to 5.5 degrees, that's what's in the cylinder pressure limit table. Borderline knock timing is around 2 for that area, that along with any learned knock advance and other adjustments probably brings it right up to cylinder pressure limit.
The log looks pretty good, it's doing what the tune is telling it to.

On my 2.3 Mustang, peak torque seems to hit right around 2-5 degrees, so you'll probably peak around there as well... Anything over that will probably lose torque or increase knock.

Other things you can do is adjust knock advance limit, it's pretty low in the upper RPM range... You could bring the minimum values in there up to 3 to 5 and still be safe.

Though what's probably limiting your torque is likely the torque model tables, they top out at 2.4 airload and that will hard limit max airload to that, if you extend those out, you'll probably hit around 2.6 or 2.8 without issue.

I have a crappy video on my Youtube channel on how to rescale that here:
https://youtu.be/aT6dGcdprFg
And I've attached the spreadsheet that goes with it.

[alsdriftshop]

Thank you very much. But I did the load re-scaling as you showed as well as in few other tables including borderline, cylinder pressure.
Did a pull and exact same power I went from 2 degrees on my mapping tables to 4 but still on using cylinder pressure limits. Am I understanding the advancing / retarding wrong?

Should I go to 0? Instead of 4 ?

Advancing timing on this torque command ecu is the same as in any other system correct?

Also I can not get it to boost more then 22 psi even though I?m requesting 39.5psi.

Thank you again

[Seishuku]

The spark logic on these ECUs is pretty complex, might be worth while to clear the KAM/reset adaptations and let it relearn everything.
There might be a spark correction from a previous pull that's holding spark changes.

As for boost, in Airflow->Pressure Control->Max Pressure (#7147), that's absolute pressure, so your max boost + barometric pressure. At 37PSI that's about 22PSI gauge pressure, so that's probably limiting TIP and as a result limiting boost.
And in Airflow->Speed Density->Maximum Load, the upper RPM ranges on all of those mapped points is still 2.2, which isn't directly affecting your airload (your log obviously has no issue getting 2.4), but it does affect other logic. Not a problem, but not a bad idea to adjust it anyway.
But if airload is higher than 2.4, I wouldn't get too concerned over boost pressure. With these being torque based, it will try to meet torque requests in the most safest/efficient matter, which might be by spark advance, or might be boost pressure... Or both.
It's not exactly like in the old days where more boost = more power, sometimes trying to force more boost will result in lower power numbers, because you're fighting the ECU's logic that's trying to keep everything in check. So more boost might also end up in lower spark advance or richer/leaner lambda to control the torque output.

Edit:
Also worth noting, in Airflow->Turbocharger->Outlet Pressure, that's in gauge pressure, not absolute... So I would back that down to something safe, like 24 or 26PSI.

[alsdriftshop]

The spark logic on these ECUs is pretty complex, might be worth while to clear the KAM/reset adaptations and let it relearn everything.
There might be a spark correction from a previous pull that's holding spark changes.

As for boost, in Airflow->Pressure Control->Max Pressure (#7147), that's absolute pressure, so your max boost + barometric pressure. At 37PSI that's about 22PSI gauge pressure, so that's probably limiting TIP and as a result limiting boost.
And in Airflow->Speed Density->Maximum Load, the upper RPM ranges on all of those mapped points is still 2.2, which isn't directly affecting your airload (your log obviously has no issue getting 2.4), but it does affect other logic. Not a problem, but not a bad idea to adjust it anyway.
But if airload is higher than 2.4, I wouldn't get too concerned over boost pressure. With these being torque based, it will try to meet torque requests in the most safest/efficient matter, which might be by spark advance, or might be boost pressure... Or both.
It's not exactly like in the old days where more boost = more power, sometimes trying to force more boost will result in lower power numbers, because you're fighting the ECU's logic that's trying to keep everything in check. So more boost might also end up in lower spark advance or richer/leaner lambda to control the torque output.

Edit:
Also worth noting, in Airflow->Turbocharger->Outlet Pressure, that's in gauge pressure, not absolute... So I would back that down to something safe, like 24 or 26PSI.

Thank you so much for the help. I still cant make more boost and is saturday I have to go home sometimes lol. I tested your advised re-scaled the load values and lower the max pressure outlet made little more toque but same boost. here is the logs and current map. Im missing something is driving me crazy. i feel timing is optimized with this boost so thats why i cant make any more power.

[Seishuku]

Looks like flange temp load limit is holding it some now (airload is about 2.6, flange temp inverse is 2.6), I would just set that to 3.0 and be done with it.
You're also running out of DI angle (insufficient fuel flow), bump up Fuel->General->Man Injection Angle to like 290, that'll hopefully give you a big enough fuel window.

Edit:
Also noticed that your logged MAP is maxing out at 37PSI, are you sure the values for the 4 BAR MAP sensor are correct?

[alsdriftshop]

Thank you!!!

The map sensor values were given to me from the company that we got the map sensor from. Also ignition On engine Off barometric pressure and map pressure both readings are almost the same.
Do you have any info of how to calculate the values bad on voltage and pressure?

I will change what you mentioned and give you an update tomorrow.

Again thank you so much.

[Seishuku]

Yeah, no problem!

I suppose if that's what they told you, that's probably correct then.
It's just a math equation, once again COBB has a page that describes how it's done more or less:
https://cobbtuning.atlassian.net/wik...ages/948601266
It's fairly involved.

It's also possible that the PID tops out at 37PSI for whatever reason.
On my Mustang, there's a high resolution MAP PID, might not be a bad idea to switch to that if it's available.