yea ok ill see if I'm able to go see the injectors tomorrow after school. then take them get clean.
yea ok ill see if I'm able to go see the injectors tomorrow after school. then take them get clean.
The guy just called me and said he sold the injectors still looking around
Well I haven?t gotten any luck I have texted about 30 cars being part out with the injectors I?m looking but their ether sold or won?t sell them separately. I called junkyards and can?t find them. Do u think we can try to tune it as is for right now. I just need it to run so I can take it to school and back. Also I just started working again so I?ll be able to probably buy new hood parts in a couple of weeks
Yep clean them the best you can get them cleaned if you can do what you gota do I will walk you through some steps please refer to my picture where I ask you to disable the maf sensor and follow this instructions see if the engine will run like that and go from there. I can either tune things for you by making suggestions or teach you how to tune which will take longer or we can tune it quickly at first then go back and learn later, whatever you want. I can work very quickly but you wont learn as much or we can work slowly and carefully and you will learn much more its up to you
so i did everything in the photos to disable maf. the maf table i set it up to 80. i writhed it down and it started right up. the wideband was reading about 15.3 to 15.7 and i would like to take it slow so i can learn what am doing so i can tune in the future
upload your file again whenever you make big changes and I will look through it and decide how to proceed.
Give more information about the car also, does it idle good, what rpm does it idle at, did it start easily, does it drive, what is done to the transmission, does the transmission year match the engine, where is the transmission from, literally tell me everything because if you leave one thing out it could be a mistake waiting to happen. Did you fill the transmission full with fluid and how do you know for sure it is full, did you check the dipstick depth or is the dipstick stock or from another car or truck for example. Some dipstick lie. How old is the fluid. What was done to the transmission. What torque converter does it have. Were you able to put the plugs in without touching them with bare skin. How old is the fuel in the tank. Where is the driveshaft from, is it stock or was it cut. What differential is in the vehicle and what tire size. The HPtuners VCM editor has a Tire/Gear calculator you must use to get correct speed input make sure you do that and be 100% sure what gear ratio is. These are setting up issues and safety reliability issues to cover before you drive much so you dont break something.
The next basic thing you must do before going much further is setting up the scanner to read two or three different situations.
Bring wideband data into the scanner like this
Play with the scanner to figure it out. You can try importing one of mine
3-18-20layoutbackupalso.Layout.xml to see how it captures the needed data into the graph (chart)
9-21-23 channels backup.Channels.xml channels
AEM WBO2.MathParameter.xml math wideband
I use my EGR sensor to bring in wideband data as an Analog voltage. I think you have a different way to bring in the wideband.
Try right clicking in the 'graph' and select 'graphs layout' then set up a graph just for the wideband. Try to select your wideband as the input. Refer to my graph for some details if needed.
Mine required custom math yours may not.
On the left side channels is very important to familiarize yourself with. If the channel isn't present during logging, the data will not be available later when you review the log. For example if TPS isn't in the channel when you log, the log will NEVER capture TPS, so if you decide you want to see TPS later you can't add it to the log, you will need a completely new log to see TPS.
My channels includes the everyday stuff but depending on your computer it might be too many things to log at once. Computers can have difficulty logging too many things at once.
Right click something in the channels and look "polling interval" this is extremely important. Polling interval is how often that sensor is sampled. If you want clean wideband data for example it will need to be fast polling interval. Engine rpm is fast polling interval. Some things like temperature of CTS can be slow. You should review the intervals of all the sensors- ALWAYS check, and make them as slow as possible to save CPU power, or make them as fast as needed for proper tuning methods.
Our method will be basic, that we may apply these techniques to ANY computer, ANY engine. All ECU use a polling interval and capture wideband data somehow and allow the tuner to review these sensors and data.
When you are finished here you can use the same technique to tune anything, nothing is specific to HPtuners except the scanner software setup which you can begin by playing with it.
If you get stuck with something I can make a video to show exactly how to do it, but I want to see what you can figure out on your own first to save time.
Organize the channels like mine are so the more important stuff is grouped together and near the top. Put things that you need to log but dont need to see near the bottom.
[QUOTE=kingtal0n;748459]upload your file again whenever you make big changes and I will look through it and decide how to proceed.
Give more information about the car also, does it idle good, what rpm does it idle at, did it start easily, does it drive, what is done to the transmission, does the transmission year match the engine, where is the transmission from, literally tell me everything because if you leave one thing out it could be a mistake waiting to happen. Did you fill the transmission full with fluid and how do you know for sure it is full, did you check the dipstick depth or is the dipstick stock or from another car or truck for example. Some dipstick lie. How old is the fluid. What was done to the transmission. What torque converter does it have. Were you able to put the plugs in without touching them with bare skin. How old is the fuel in the tank. Where is the driveshaft from, is it stock or was it cut. What differential is in the vehicle and what tire size. The HPtuners VCM editor has a Tire/Gear calculator you must use to get correct speed input make sure you do that and be 100% sure what gear ratio is. These are setting up issues and safety reliability issues to cover before you drive much so you dont break something.
maf delete 1.hplmaf disable.hpt so the iddle sits around 800, im not sure if its actually deleted because i dont see the dtcs whenever i read them. The transmission is tock i bout it together with the engine it came with everything. yes i filled the transmission up with trans fluid, one of the first things i did to get it running. i filled it up like some months ago when i was starting to finish up the parts on the swap to get it running. yes i put the plugs without touching them. i just fuel the truck like 1 month ago. the drive shaft is the original from the obs truck, and its stock it just bolted right on. the gears i believe are 3.42. im trying to this right now cuz after school i have work and i won't be able to continue till tomorrow.
To verify the maf is gone I can think of a couple ways,
In the mass airflow vs output frequency table that you put 80's into, make it 80 everywhere so you can tell for sure the table isn't being used.
Another thing you can is unplug it, but that will set the IAT to an extreme so if you unplug it you must also flat line the IAT config table "IAT Sensor cal" you can put the same number 80*F for all cells.
I prefer if you will buy an external IAT sensor and wire directly to eliminate the maf completely from the tube, it is just a restriction anyways hanging around.
But before you do these things, do this (I searched this up you should have looked this up already)
"To disable the MAF, you need to go to Engine Diag -> Airflow and set "MAF Frequency Fail High" to 0. "
There is also a table right under that 'maximum delta airflow' I think you can zero that out. It says 'if the difference exceeds' so I think smaller number is better so the difference is always exceeding some number.
Always make a backup tune file before making changes so you can go back a step or ten
I think it will give you the codes after that.
-Disable 'cylinder charge temperature complex model' This will force the ECU to rely solely on the IAT for behind the scenes air fuel corrections which will help stabilize the air fuel ratio in open loop as coolant temp changes.
Work on getting wideband data imported. Does it work for you yet? Upload your chart configuration so I Can look at your logs the way you see them.
As you move forward keep these in mind
1. the laptop connection to the HPtuners and ECU needs to be solid. Do not let the laptop shake or move around much. The cable attachment needs to be solid. The HPtuners box and the ECU should be steady, consider some cloth to keep them still if they are not mounted. Keep them from vibrating.
When you are uploading do not use write entire. Use the fast upload option.
When you are uploading, make sure absolutely nothing moves. DO not touch the laptop, cable, steering wheel, pedals, door, etc... sit absolutely still like a T-rex is looking into your car. Or don't even be in or near the car when uploading.
The electronics are extremely sensitive and even if your aren't this habit will help you in the future with other issues and it is important to develop early on, press upload and run away like its a bomb ticking down, dont let anything disturb it. If you interrupt it with a slight movement it could ruin the ECU.
2. Ok the engine controls.
There are only 2 things at the end of the day an ECU does for an engine outside of emissions controls. It does the air fuel ratio and the timing. That is basically all it does. There is some minor adjustment with the injector phase and some manipulation with the drive by wire but these are rote systems.
For the timing we have some simple ideas to discuss,
Do not let the timing bounce around. We will talk about how to stabilize the timing in the ecu later. But keep an eye on it and realize it may have some influence on running quality.
Idle timing should be near 15* btdc for stock engine. Stock engine cam has high cylinder pressure at low rpm so alot of advance isn't needed. But it should be higher than say 10* btdc for idle.
Have you ever tuned a distributor for a carburetor vehicle?
For fuel there is a simple rule you will follow throughout the tuning process.
In order to protect the spark plug quality you must ALWAYS insist that the air fuel ratio is higher than 14.7:1 during idle and cruise.
14.8 is fine, 15.5 is fine, 16.2 is fine. Whatever the engine will run with is fine higher than 14.7. You will shoot for 15.2 to 15.5 most of the time but 14.8 is fine also.
As you begin to make changes and run the engine your eyes are glued to the wideband and make sure its staying above 14.7:1 to protect the plugs quality.
If you see it is, then you can let the engine run and collect data etc... but if it isn't, you should not run the engine long like that because it will foul the plugs and carbon up the chambers.
The injector data doesn't look right yet. Just a hunch. It takes longer than 0.1ms to open an injector even a tiny one. Where did you get those numbers? Check the Hptuners repository for a vehicle with your injectors and compare. I Warned you early on that injector size and data are essential so you need to be 100% sure otherwise it will not make sense when tuning the VE table.
Aftermarket ECU may have a 2D table for injector data which roughs the values. OEM ecu is more specific with its 3D table. In general an injector takes around 1ms to open at typical automotive voltages.
I will discuss pulse width length significant at length at some point
ok so i did the "To disable the MAF, you need to go to Engine Diag -> Airflow and set "MAF Frequency Fail High" to 0. " and also the disabled charge temp. also i cheaked again my injector data with 2 other stock tune files and they all look the same in the flow rate vs kpa. i saw this video of how to set up the chart not sure if its right. .sd tuning layout.Layout.xml this is my layout i believe. Ima go test the changes if they did something.
The channels contain alot of useless samples like misfires and fuel trims.
The layout also contains very little useful information. We will not be using copy and paste techniques to tune or percentages or globals. Those common methods are a crutch to avoid learning how to actually tune the tables and you will not learn how to tune all computers if you use those methods. There is no online resource to follow which can teach you what I will teach you.
The focus is, go through each channel option and consider whether you need it or not. Check the polling interval and set it where you think you need it for the sensor. Do you know what 1ms is? 1 millisecond 1/1000 of a second. so 100ms is 10 times per second. Like 10 frames per second, kind of slow for visual queues. 100ms too slow for wideband data for example, but too fast for a coolant sensor.
The goal at this point is not to copy and paste, it is to understand. What I want you to do is
1. setup the channels YOUR way, then upload what you think is right
2. setup the layout YOUR way, then upload
3. Bring the wideband into the graphs layout like I showed and upload that with the layout
I will review and decide how to best help you understand these things, it is basic but essential to nail the scanner before trying to tune any vehicle.
Again don't use fuel trims or stft or ltft or misfires- look at my channels. That is the basic setup there already.
I reviewed the last log
1. are you getting the maf codes and disabled the maf
2. notice the timing jumping, compare the idle advance to base timing. Notice base timing is 18* and idle advance is moving up and down but the final timing does not seem to reflect the difference. There is a timing modifier which is not being logged. Add channels which modify the timing until you find out which channel is modifying the table. E.g. the base timing of 18* In the log plus or minus all of the modifying tables should reflect the total final timing.
You can start making some basic changes which will help you tune any engine
first, go under 'spark' look at 'under speed' and 'over speed' and de sensitize them. All ECU timing controlled have this feature. *think* about the engine response in relation to the timing. You never told me if you tuned a distributor before. Usually the engine will have a big cam and you will need to account for large variations in rpm at idle, it could be +/- 50 or 100rpm at idle all the time. You don't want a lot of spark correction for idle speed. An engine that needs alot of idle spark correction is an un-tuned engine or something is wrong with it. Old engines which use distributors had no such luxury the timing would remain steadyish at idle.
You should remove some of the correction near the low differences, for example 'overspeed' for 25rpm over target is -5.0 degrees of timing. You can change that to about 2* or 1.8* or 2.5* or something less. Do the same thing for all of the points which are close to zero, anything 50rpm or less should be relatively MINIMUM adjustment.
The GOAL is to have a somewhat smooth steady timing advance at the end of these adjustments. Look into other timing modify tables and de-sensitize them if you think they are too sensitive. If you don't know then don't make any change yet.
Next,
Notice the air fuel is a bit lean. Your fuel pressure is a bit low iirc. The injector size may be a bit large in the injector size table. The VE map is untuned.
Lean air fuel is fine but it will make tuning the engine near idle more difficult when the VE map is not tuned. We do not want to spend alot of time tuning idle speed it is a waste of time. We just want to smooth the spark and get the engine stable so we can actually tune the driving stuff. After driving stuff is done we go back with the knowledge of VE is correct to tune the idle once and for all.
For now, I recommend you can Decrease the injector size by 1 or 2 lb/hr in the injector size window for all cells, just select all and make them slightly smaller so the computer will inject more fuel for a given airmass calculation
Once the wideband is imported to the scanner like my graph you should make some VE table changes to see if they influence the wideband chart
Pay close attention to the polling interval of the wideband it should be similar to RPM for fast response
I'm just waiting to see how far you can reach on your own then I will make a video and go through every hptuners setting you can adjust to tune the engine seems like the best way to handle this because I can't directly modify your tune file and send it back and doing each setting with a picture would take longer
also upload the tune file when you made all these changes
I want to make something clear. The engine is stock, right? Stock transmission?
Therefore, it is already fairly tuned. The base default values are 'fine' plus or minus a little cleaning up in average eyes. What we are going to do isn't so much tuning as just learning and understanding. I want you to be able to tune anything, any computer. And with that knowledge the ability to understand the factory values compared to more custom, individualized values. Actual tuning isn't just making the engine run properly or adequate. It is taking control over the behavior completely with a pin point precision so that you can take the laptop out of the vehicle and get on with your life while watching the wideband for safety and cleanliness reasons. In other words no matter what engine, no matter how well it is tuned, shit happens. Fuel filters get clogged. Couplers blow off. Sensors go bad. Your setting up practice ensures most of this is taken care of BUT- no matter what engine, the more power the engine the more important that wideband becomes, that you understand and follow the wideband logic over time and able to identify immediately some change, a problem in progress, you can catch it and fix it before it causes damage. And able to predict its behavior based on your tuning ability. For stock engines the game is nickles and dimes of response and power. But for performance engines at 2x 3x 4x factory output it is life, death, and much larger chunks of power at the same percentages.
sd tuning.Channels.xmlsd tuning layout.Layout.xml so i tried to make some graphs like the one you have, not sure if its correct. the engine and transmission should be stock, i bought it from a guy on Facebook who reselled engines and transmissions from part out trucks. the truck sounds cammed but aint that just the timing being way off or something.maf disable try 3.hpt so i made the changes to the injector data and the under and over speed, i want to make sure their good before i upload them. the truck reads one dtc about maf hi output, those that mean its disabled. right now Ima check the polling interval in my channels.
0x10: P0103 - Mass or Volume Air Flow A Circuit High (Pending, Current, History) this is what it reads
You need a layout graph for the wideband, did you try it yet? right click 'graphs layout' Then where it says 'parameter' choose the wideband , try them all until you find the right one if necessary.
Adjust so you can see the map pressure and rpm, and it logs the wideband at some rate. Copy this when it works like I did into many versions of the same thing so we can tweak the wideband input data for TPS% and rate of change of TPS to use filters. I will explain later for now just focus on getting the wideband logging nicely.
Good job doing all those other things. Please tell me if you have distributor tuning experience with the weights and vac advance. Or any carb experience.
Figure out the timing, add the channels for why it is bouncing around
I am leaving my lab now I am going to tune a haltech for a friends car and I will get the haltech data for us to compare with hptuners when you fix the wideband and some minor things I'll make a tuning video for you to understand the process. We can see the similarities between haltech and OEM ecu for you to understand gradually that all computers work the same way.
Tuning the VE table is like welding aluminum. Before you can weld, you must prepare many things. The material must be brushed a certain direction with a clean brush. The metal should be cleaned with acetone. The tungsten needs to be ground a certain way. The welder needs to setup frequency amperage and dwell period. The metal needs to be held precisely and grounded properly. Only once everything is setup well can you begin to weld pretty welds. This is how the VE table is for all computer- you do not bother touching it or trying to tune it until the major settings are ready and prepared, like the injector delay/size and timing table and over/under speeds, there is a sort of template you will follow that starts with the mechanical aspects and ends with tuning the VE and finally the idle and basic quality aspects tweaking to extract finite behaviors (specific , small incrementals). This final phase can take months or years depending on the engine and ECU. It is important to see that your initial efforts are to get driving quickly safely but the act of FINE tuning may take many weeks or months and you might even stop and give it a rest for a long time and come back to finish later.
uploadmetryboilingtime9-22-23.hpt
23-09-23 00-30-36.hpl
chartslaos.Charts.xml
Here is my 5.3L 2-bar file, my charts layout and a log. Use it with the channels and layouts I uploaded previously to view it.
Use all the layouts and channels as necessary to view my wideband data captured.
Tomorrow I'm going to be busy most of the day but I should be avail towards night time. For now, you can focus on the wideband data collection, and, these
1. Review how distributor timing works, centrifugal and vacuum advance
2. Review how 700R4 pressure TV-cable works, especially the geometry, learn what the boost valve is and how to measure the pressure on the transmission from the port on top of the bellhousing.
3. Learn how to use the COMPARE feature in the VCM editor. Load your file, then load my file as a COMPARE, and use the hot keys CTRL+2, CTRL+3, CTRL+4 to understand compare feature.
In the future if I want to make changes to your file I will need to make them in MY file and then have you use COMPARE to bring them into your file, because I cannot directly edit your file.
Give me some time to make a decent video for tuning, I want to cover as much as I can but I also don't want to take forever so likely I will do a quick video to get you started. But before we go much farther we need to bring the wideband in properly, tune up the transmission a bit, produce a viable timing map, figure all the timing modifiers out, setup some boundary conditions for some of the other sensors like CTS IAT how much fuel and timing they can add, then setup the PE. We can tune almost everything in advance by understanding how the engine works. The rest is just the actual welding, the VE table and then finally cleaning up and idle stuff and any transient issues and shifting behavior. Make sure you used the TIRE GEAR WIZARD in the EDITOR so your transmission will work properly.
5.3/4l80e/turbo playthrough
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ge-budget.html
cancer research
https://www.mdpi.com/2306-5354/10/1/96
so for your question i haven't had any experience with distributor tuning, but i have seen someone change the timing of it, but ill look more into it and the other things you said too. I did made some charts. i made some new ones but I don't know if their correctsd tuning layout.Layout.xml. i compared the tune you send me to mines, I looked thru it. their changes everywhere. I saw the log too but for the charts file this came outScreenshot (39).png. I really cant find more timing channels, but im researching more of the timing modifiers to try to understand them.
same log just showing my graphshttps://www.youtube.com/shorts/hepdR...?feature=share
Last edited by Jacog; 09-23-2023 at 12:59 PM.
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