Help Please & Here we go again

[Tranzman]

I got my truck back from the body shop and I can come back to this battery light issue.
I submitted a ticket to HPTuners and they suggested that I re post this issue.
I am LS swapping a 2000 S10 2.2L 0411 PCM with a 2004 Trailblazer engine & transmission. I purchased a complete custom wire harness, P59 PCM & start up tune from CPW (Current Performance Wiring). The tune file is from a 2005 Silverado 5.3L. I am using a Holley accessory drive kit that comes with a Lester 8292N alternator. The wire harness is wired like a 2004 SSR/Trailblazer alternator system. The alternator part # is for a 2004 SSR/Trailblazer 5.3L.

My issue is my battery light stays on. The wiring diagram indicates that it uses serial data for the logic module inside the instrument cluster for the battery light. This one statement is why I am posting this for 2nd time.

CPW 2000 S10 Alt diagram.gif

Here is what I tested to be sure it's a data driven issue.
1) the alternator makes 14.6V & 36 amps after starting and running at about 1500rpm. I did not load the system to see if it will create the full 145 amp rating.
2) The alternator L terminal for function.
2A) KOEO 12.6V tester lamp is on,
2B) KOER 14.7 and tester lamp is out.
3) I checked the wire harness for the proper continuity from the Alternator pigtail to the PCM.
4) The Instrument cluster for system voltage. It is typical 12.5 KOEO & 14.5 KOER

I belong to the S10 Forum and 2 veteran LS S10 swappers suggested a S10 tune file with a V-8 Segment swapped in. 1 in particular suggested an OS 12587603 from a S10 using the same OS # from a 2004 GMC Yukon 5.3L. This way the tune file is genuine S10 to S10 for the serial data. This is what he is using for his personal S10-LS swap and the battery light functions as it should.

This particular OS # is used for various GM platforms in the 2004 model year. What I have seen so far is: S10, SSR, Silverado, Sierra, Tahoe, & Yukons
I started with a 2004 S10 V-6 12587603 tune file & a 2004 SSR 5.3L 12587603 for the segment swap. Both of these files were downloaded from the HPtuners tune repository.

My vehicle ran up until I flashed this new file to the truck. It would not start and immediately set a P0315 crankshaft variation not learned.

I was able to flash it back to the previous tune and it started and ran. This is where I left because the body shop wanted the truck for further paint work. Now I have it back and I am re-looking at this and I?m not sure where I may have gone wrong.


My questions for you are.
1- Is the class 2 serial data enough different to pursue this as a fiX?
1A) Is the serial data specific to specific platforms? I even went to the Chevrolet dealer mechanic friend & he couldn't answer that question....

2-How do you run a crankshaft variation re-learn if the vehicle won?t start? If the the vehicle won't start because of a p0315 code doesn't that makes the file useless?

3-Do you have any suggestions as to where I should start again?
A-Can you remove or re-write over the segment swap?
B- Start with a S10 file & segment swap a V-8 in again or
C- Start with a full SSR 5.3L

4- Does HPtuners mark a file when you have flashed it? How do they know what files have used credits?

I?m attaching my current tune file & the S10 file I used.
91023 Fuel tank changes- trans tables.hpt2004 S10 4.3L OS12587603+V8+12580681 INJ+RPM+AF+Timing.hpt

[blindsquirrel]

Please do yourself a favor and pick either Trailblazer PCM/OS/components/wiring, or Silverado PCM/OS/components/wiring. Trying to mix them... maybe possible, but wouldn't it be easier to solve problems like this if you had some documentation and diag strategies you could rely on? I feel like this is not the first time this has been suggested.

[gametech]

There are numerous documented instances of multiple failures with the alternators that come with those Holley accessory drives. Just something else you should be aware of.

[Tranzman]

There are numerous documented instances of multiple failures with the alternators that come with those Holley accessory drives. Just something else you should be aware of.

As stated above it was tested and the lamp circuit was tested. It passed both tests. 14.5V @ 36amp output after a startup...

[Tranzman]

Please do yourself a favor and pick either Trailblazer PCM/OS/components/wiring, or Silverado PCM/OS/components/wiring. Trying to mix them... maybe possible, but wouldn't it be easier to solve problems like this if you had some documentation and diag strategies you could rely on? I feel like this is not the first time this has been suggested.

Blindsquirrel, you are correct in this has been posted about before and I stated that up front. I also took your advise from the previous post about this... and decided to start over month's ago with a more compatible car/PCM/wire-harness/components/tune file as stated in the 4th & 5th paragraph in post 1.

So i did my self as much of a favor as I could and got documentation from CPW on the harness & the PCM/OS/componants. I also used documented strategies from GM & others. What I found has been stated...

I also stated that the Silverado tune is what was sold to me by CPW (who specializes in S10 swap harnesses & parts). Why they would sell me a Siverado tune for MY S10 is beyond me. Their statement to me over this issue was "sometimes you just can't fix it and you just have to remove the light bulb." That is where I decided to take the challenge and get to the root cause if it.

This is where I have had to rely on such experts in tuning such as yourself. So in my attempt to "try not to mix them" as you say and because the alternator part # is for a 2004 Trailblazer/SSR. I chose to start there on wiring. CPW had sent me a 2004 Corvette PCM connector views. This only matched about 85%. I went and got the PCM Connector end views from a friend at the GM dealer for both the Trailblazer & SSR and checked the both against mine. Turned out that the PCM connector end views matched the SSR 99%.

Now that wiring is documented, I moved to the tune file. I chose to start over with a S10 tune with a V-8 swapped in. A specific OS12577603 that was used among several platforms was chosen at the suggestion of @lifeisanenigma from the S10 forum (which I am also a member of) because that OS worked for him. He started with a 2004 S10 V-6 tune for the serial data compatibility & a 2004 GMC Yukon V-8.

At the time of building my own tune file for it, I didn't know he used a Yukon for the V-8.

Because of compatibility items I learned from all this documentation.

I used a 2004 S10 V-6 stock tune file for several compatibility reason's
1) it was S10 to S10.
2) I segment swapped a 2004 SSR V-8 because the wire-harness/alternator/O2's matched what I have 99%.
3) I also chose the 2004 SSR because it shared the OS # with the S10.
4) The 2004 SSR uses a LM4 engine/transmission like a Trailblazer but adds dual cooling fans.
5) When I did find a genuine 2004 Trailblazer tune file. It turned out to be a different OS #.

That is when it all went south and it would not start!!!

I did more research into the P0315 code. I found that it has to be able to run to do a crankshaft variation relearn.
I also made a ticket at HPTuners and Bill Henn stated that; "we do not provide tuning assistance or advice" He suggested that I use this forum. That has led me back here to get answers to specific questions.

When I was young, one of the older tech's at the dealership told me. "It's hard to fix something if you don't understand how it's supposed to work."

Now I have touched on or asked some specific questions and still have not got any answers. How do I understand how it's suppose to work???

HPtuners did respond today about my question # 4 in my original post.

[Tranzman]

HPTuners responded to my 4th question about licensing. They stated that in VCM editor go to Help>licensing information. Here is a screen shot of mine.

Screenshot (25).png

Because I have so little experience with HPTuners and licensing. Can anyone explain what I am seeing?
I see my original 2005 Silverado tune. I also see my son's 2013 GMC that I did a DOD delete. I just don't get why it shows a controller and not a specific vehicle.

[gametech]

As stated above it was tested and the lamp circuit was tested. It passed both tests. 14.5V @ 36amp output after a startup...

I was not implying that has anything to do with your current issue, just something you may need to be aware of in the future. Apparently the alternator pulley is too small for high rpms, and I have read of some questionable issue with internal circuitry grounding. One or the other or the combination seems to burn them out prematurely.

[SiriusC1024]

I think it has to do with the on-demand charging system.

Something like this might be the cure:
https://www.mechman.com/plugs-harnes...an-alternator/

[Tranzman]

I think it has to do with the on-demand charging system.
Something like this might be the cure:
https://www.mechman.com/plugs-harnes...an-alternator/

Thanks for the suggestion. That appears to be for using a 2005 & later model 2 pin RVC alternator.

I'm dealing with the AD244 style 4 pin.

I think the key in this is in the tune file. Can you help explain the screen shot in post # 6. I see 2 vehicles listed and 1 controller.

HPT tuners wouldn't expound on the picture of the license information. They only responded today about it with:
You should not be licensing & flashing other peoples files to your vehicle, this is against our advice and you do so at your own risk. Please see attached, this is what you see when you go to our customer supplied repository.

While we do not provide advice on tuning, or segment swapping or how to swap from a S10 4 cyl ecm to a trailblazer engine & transmission, we do host a forum where many tuners congregate to share files and experiences though, often our customers find the answers they?re looking for there. https://forum.hptuners.com/

So I guess I don't have a full understanding of the use of tune files downloaded from HPtuners repository and their licensing of credits. It appears that the tune file I used is not licensed correctly.

My current understanding is that you can download, look at, modify and save any file. When you want to write to the PCM is when you pay for credits.

I guess the problem is how you actually acquire the tune file? I down loaded it from the repository, thus making it "someone else's file". I did not pull it from a PCM via my interface. Is there something special that is done in building a start up tune like the one that I bought from CPW?

[SiriusC1024]

My thought was that your P59 is tuned with a 2005 Silverado file, so it's expecting that circuit. Can't say for sure just an idea.

Do you have this this connector?
alt.png

Should be going into pins 15 and 74 of C2 Green.
https://www.lt1swap.com/2004vortec_pcm.htm

[blindsquirrel]

HP Tuners was not ever really intended to be the kind of tool to use for changing the whole calibration, like taking a file from one PCM (whether it's a PCM you own, or one you borrowed from a buddy, or is a file you found in the repository, or one you found on a thumbdrive in a puddle behind a dumpster in an alley next to a titty bar). It's meant for making changes to what is already there. The fact that the software doesn't prevent you from flashing a file from one PCM into a different one doesn't mean that's the right way to do it.

It technically works on Gen 3s and lots of people do it. It does not work on Gen 4s with their built-in drive by wire controller (a .hpt file only has 6 segments in it, the Gen 4 ECM has 8 segments - it 'works' in that you can do it, but the two ETC segments will be left behind from the old OS).

[Tranzman]

HP Tuners was not ever really intended to be the kind of tool to use for changing the whole calibration, like taking a file from one PCM (whether it's a PCM you own, or one you borrowed from a buddy, or is a file you found in the repository, or one you found on a thumbdrive in a puddle behind a dumpster in an alley next to a titty bar). It's meant for making changes to what is already there. The fact that the software doesn't prevent you from flashing a file from one PCM into a different one doesn't mean that's the right way to do it.

It technically works on Gen 3s and lots of people do it. It does not work on Gen 4s with their built-in drive by wire controller (a .hpt file only has 6 segments in it, the Gen 4 ECM has 8 segments - it 'works' in that you can do it, but the two ETC segments will be left behind from the old OS).

This is exactly the root issue I'm trying to get to.

So if I understand it correctly I need to find a 2004 S10 V-6 PCM from a salvage yard and start all over from there.

Nobody has still answered my questions about the License information In post 6 & the "start up tune" people seem to sell. Can anyone clarify these?

[blindsquirrel]

I don't have any way to know what you licensed and how those things got into your list. I don't think anybody else will either, unless they were watching over your shoulder when you did it.

There are compatibility issues you need to verify before buying or flashing anything. It's based on the Service Number. If the OS/year/platform/whatever you want to use calls for the same Service Number as the one you already have, you do not need to buy a new/different PCM. You'd need to get the VIN from the file you want to use, go look up what service number that VIN takes, then compare with your current one.

[Tranzman]

My thought was that your P59 is tuned with a 2005 Silverado file, so it's expecting that circuit. Can't say for sure just an idea.

Do you have this this connector?
alt.png

Should be going into pins 15 and 74 of C2 Green.
https://www.lt1swap.com/2004vortec_pcm.htm

I have the older GM 4-wire set up.
Yes that is what I was attempting to find out. That was one of my original questions in post #1 question 1 & 1A.

20220920_150334[2305843009277231263].jpg

C2-74 green is actually the BK2-S1 heater low control, C2-75 is Generator Field duty cycle.
I also verified that I am using a 12586242 PCM, it is shared with Tahoe,Trailblazer, SSR, Silverado & Suburban. The S10, Blazer & Corvette use 12586243 PCM's. according to LT1 swap.com the 12586243 accepts cable throttle. That supports the use of that # in a S10/Blazer with cable throttle.
I verified that the alternator pin "L" goes to pin "B" of the alternator 4-pin pigtail and has continuity at C2-15
I verified that the alternator pin "F" goes to pin "C" of the alternator 4-pin pigtail and has continuity at C2-75

Those are the same on the 2004 S10/Blazer & 2004 Trailblazer/SSR.

[Tranzman]

I don't have any way to know what you licensed and how those things got into your list. I don't think anybody else will either, unless they were watching over your shoulder when you did it.

There are compatibility issues you need to verify before buying or flashing anything. It's based on the Service Number. If the OS/year/platform/whatever you want to use calls for the same Service Number as the one you already have, you do not need to buy a new/different PCM. You'd need to get the VIN from the file you want to use, go look up what service number that VIN takes, then compare with your current one.

I appreciate your expertise. I guess I'm just ignorant of several small details that could be why its not working as I believe it should.

Thought that I spelled that out in post 1 if not I just posted the PCM #'s in post 14. I believe I have taken the time to follow all that comparability of components. I now believe it is either The difference in the serial data or the fact that the S10 dash does not support the use of the alternator field duty cycle wire and it screws with serial data.

None of this explains the fact that the S10 tune with the SSR V-8 segment swap would not start and gave a P0315 code. Looking over my shoulder doesn't do anything either. If you look at your personal license information. Does any of that say p59 controller or do they all have a vehicle year & model attached??? That is what I was hoping could be the reason.

HPTuners sent this to me.

license.JPG

If you read this they state you have to have both a license for the vehicle file you have open and the one you are writing to.

So how do you acquire the license for the file you have open?
When you write to a PCM it asks for the proper credits, correct?
The only differences in the 3 I have in my license information is. The Silverado & Yukon were pulled via my interface. The P59 controller was the file I used from the repository, it's also the one that wouldn't start in my truck...