2014 E550 - Learning to Tune

[Rescu2000]

Smog isn't an issue here. There's not a county in this state that does any sort of emissions testing.

[chevota]

Test.hpt

[Rescu2000]

Latest tune.

I haven't tried this one yet, but I think it'll fix some of the issues you saw.

[chevota]

No, don't run that one. Not enough fuel and too much spark. Not just a waste of time, but not good for the motor, imo.
Max Desired Load under Airflow/General is pretty high. I don't think it'll hurt, but maybe better to ease into it until you get a feel for everything? I had to set mine to like 250 before it even responded, but apparently 180-200 is a more normal #. It's already much higher than oem, but I'd bump it at least 10%?
Also note the temp. You have 211F as the cutoff. You will break 211 after a few seconds at full load. Or, if you don't set the fans like I do, you'll break it before you even start. Mine is set to like 225, which I will never hit. Then it drops power fast after that in case I actually do overheat, like spring a leak or the belt falls off or something. The oem overheat settings kick in who knows when, and probably way too late, so imo this is the new and safer setting. So if I feel power drop at full load, I let off, because it may be heat. So far I don't think I've ever broken 215.

The Torque to Load is the most important thing in there, imo. This is basically the full throttle/boost setting as far as we're concerned. This puppy is what you're after, but you also need to be careful because it's dangerous. We have the potential to overboost and this will allow that to happen. Note I had you at 200, which was a safe #, but at 4500 I bumped it to 210. This is because it's basically impossible to overboost at 4500, and certainly impossible at 5K+. At ~2500-4k it's very real, so be wary there. So if I were you I would raise the 4500+ up by 5, and 5k by 10, and see what happens. When I made your 4500+ 210 it was because it's ok to push that, and it's didn't respond like I expected. So perhaps yours is like mine and that needs to be raised more, or maybe that 180 Max Desired Load is holding it back, like it would on mine. Just have to tinker and find out.
See how my Ethanol tune has a weird dip in that Tq to Load in the danger zone? It didn't a couple months ago, but the car slowly changed and started overboosting a bit. So I lowered it a bit, then it would make more boost again, I'd lower more etc until it bacame the dip you see. Now it looks like it's going the other way and I'll be raising again. Why? Who knows, just another mystery. The parts before and after the dip are a non-issue, can't over boost there. At least I can't.

Not feeling the Driver Input, where you raised the torque off idle. Mine is ~380 I think, and probably still too much. It makes my car too jumpy. Try it, it won't hurt, but for me those #'s would make it almost impossible to start gently from a stop. Note I also lowered Pedal command, this is why. I actually lowered it even further a couple days ago. It's no doubt too much because of all the other limiters I removed and stuff I bumped, but that pedal cmd can tame it if needed. Play with and see, it's harmless.

The EGT I still don't really understand, but it certainly controls the Target Lambda and 2nd Fuel, and can limit power. So for my car, if I clip the peak temps a bit and net some power. It seems about 1750F is as low I need to go to net the gains, but I've played with it from 1600 to 1800 just to see. Yours I barely lowered at all, something to play with later.
There seems to be some math going on with the temps and the fuel, but yours is fine for now and we can discuss this one later.


Fyi here's a screen of the spark diff between the one I made for gas vs oem. So that's the retard I added. Note the file names at the top, so the "2014 E550 chevota" in post #13 is retarded, and what you
want.

retard.jpg

[Rescu2000]

Ok I need to sit down tonight and start over. There's a couple things I need to fix in the tune. I'll do that this afternoon

[Rescu2000]

This one should be a closer match to what you sent. I can load it tonight and try it out.

Note that there are a lot of differences between that one and the test one that is likely leaving a lot on the table with respect to torque.

[chevota]

I don't think that one will do anything more. I'd try this, which is a little hotter: 2014 E550 chevota 3.hpt

The fans and spark on this are set so it will idle cooler.
I also set your gas pedal like mine. Try it, or undo it, but at the very least it's an example of how to soften part throttle if it's jumpy

Not sure if you knew, but you can change tunes when out n about by using your phone as a hotspot. Seems dumb to me but you have get the ok from HP every single time. I thought maybe if you wanted, you could make several tunes to test in one outing.

[Rescu2000]

Ok. I'll give that a shot. In the one I uploaded it was supposed to just go back to the first one you sent, but ensuring that EVERYTHING was copied, which I didn't do the first time.

[Rescu2000]

The ECT is moving in to the red on this one even when I'm just cruising at a steady estate on the interstate. Not even spirited driving

[Rescu2000]

log file

[chevota]

That is normal, apparently. Mine doesn't fluctuate anywhere near that much but this tune should fix it: 2014 E550 chevota 4.hpt
Under System/Fans there is "Max Temp Sensor Type" The default oem setting uses Oil temp to control the fan, so I just left it there.
I have mine set to Water temp because I worry about blowing a radiator hose or something and the eng overheating before it, or I, realize it. Water is the better judge of temps anyway. With this tune set to water, and if it acts anything like mine, normal temps on a hot day will be ~200, and should never hit 215. My oil generally stays within a few deg of water, except when warming up the water will climb quicker.

Don't worry about the "Red" on the water temp, that's my setting to alert me if I ever hit that. Oem goes past that all the time.
Another thing different is mine cannot get that hot at 80mph, even if the fan is off. At 55F ambient I don't think mine would exceed 195. Eg; yesterday at 0500 the ambient was 63F and at 80mph my water temp was 185-195.
So I don't know why yours was higher, but try this tune and see what happens. Note that these cars also have an adjustable thermostat and I have no idea what triggers them to open at lower temps. I also don't know what the highest temp setting is, just that mine is no doubt 205.
Maybe my tweaking has somehow lowered the setting, or maybe mine is not working right. All I know is my normal cruise temp is 190-195, but sometimes it drops as low as 185, even 180, and sometimes it'll go as high as 205. Since mine can go to 185 even when it's hot out, I can only assume it's the stat doing that. I also assume that because any car I've had with a regular non-adjustable stat stayed at the set temp for that stat.
When I did a 10 second run from 0-108, I pulled over on the freeway and waited a while for an opening so the temp got to 202. After the 10 seconds it was 209. Your temp climbs much quicker, but again, lets see what this one setting in the tune does.

Your boost is still lower than I expected. It's acting very much like mine. I forgot to ask before, was your car slow before the OE tune, and the OE just made it a little better but still blah? Or was it pretty quick for a stock car and the OE made you think; holy crap! Because mine ran fine and OE was holy crap! Then, a month later it dropped in power ~40%. Then oem was just awful and with the OE it was maybe 20% better but still blah, and no faster than my old E350.
Or, perhaps it was like mine and worked great at one time, then one day it didn't?

[Rescu2000]

My car was fast before and the OE Tune only made it slightly better. It had a little more aggressive tone (barely noticeable) and a little more power. The tires I had on it when I bought the car were not great. Had tread, but dry rotted some. I bought the car this year with 50k miles on it so they may have been original. With those tires it would bark going into third with traction control off with the OE Tune. I have driven a Z06, a Dodge Viper, and I've owned several Turbo Daytona's and even a Carrol Shelby edition Turbo Z. The specs on our car say we are in Dodge Viper territory, but my car is not that strong. Perhaps it is just more refined where the viper has zero control. It's a raw engine on a frame with not finesse.

Was it faster then the Chrysler 300C with a hemi and a mild tune i used to own? yea, it was better than that stock. Better than the heavily modified Daytona I had that had the 2.2 turbo running 21psi boost? ehhhh. Not a whole lot stronger. I don't know how much of this is Mercedes finesse. But I can't turn of traction control and smoke the tires. (I haven't revved the engine and dumped the brake or anything)

Don't you think I should try some of the TEST turbo settings first and then tweak from there?

[chevota]

With mine, back before the issue, with the OE tune and traction Off, I would break the tires free pretty easy, and spin them enough that it was difficult to keep it straight. Then when the power dropped I couldn't break the tires free at all.
It's very dependent on the tires though. Not sure what tires it had originally, but last year I bought Conti Extreme Contact Sport which hooked much better. When new they hooked really good, but after a few thousand miles they would spin easier and easier with wear. At ~half tread they would spin all the time and very hard to control. Once down at the wear indicators it was just stupid how easy it would spin. They would spin all the way up to 60 where it didn't catch until the 2-3 shift. Even if I floored it at say 45 they'd spin and I'd have trouble keeping it under control.

The tires I have now grip really well and have not degraded with use. When they do spin, they spin less. I think the most I've spun them is ~25mph faster than the fronts, but generally it's 20 or less. As you see in the "Spin" gauge, that's measuring the rear speed over the front, which makes it easier to see. I have to set to go red at 5mph to alert me if they spin at all.
It's not predictable because it may have lots of power and break them free from the start, or may not spin at all. Yesterday for example it was so bad that my 0-60 was 5.5 sec. Power down low was so bad that I though wth? It certainly did not spin them. Why I don't know. Could've been a fluke, could've been something I did in the tune, who knows. So I made a whole new tune from scratch and we'll see next time I drive it.
I suspect that my power loss issue fluctuates. As previously mentioned on the Torque to Load, where I had to lower it the past month because it started to make too much boost all on it's own. Now it seems my power/boost is dropping so I'm having to raise it up again. But then yesterday power was way down >:|
Aside from boost, I measure how much speed per second I net. So from 60, plus 1 second, I'm usually at 70-72. From 70 +1sec I'm at 80-80.5. 90 +1 98-98.8. 100 +1 107something. 110 +1 116something. 120 +1 125something. To check that I set the cursor? at 60.0mph, then Ctrl+ right arrow which = 1 sec. or just right arrow = 1/100 sec. That is if I have the chart set to read .5 seconds, which I've found is ideal overall. If set to .1 sec then Ctr + right arrow may = one sec, or maybe not, you just have to do it and verify.
If it's not doing the speed per sec above then I wonder why, but it's not always my fault because it may be low, but work fine the next time I floor it. I check temps and what not and everything seems the same, but it simply runs different and I don't always know why. Usually everything is the same but boost is lower, but why I don't know. Or perhaps it's dumping in too much fuel, which I can see and certainly does hurt it.

Remember I mentioned the Ex temps and fuel? It seems to be a pattern that if the Ex temps are set low, then it switches to 2nd fuel too soon and by too much, which hurts power. If Ex temps are set high, it takes longer to switch to 2nd fuel, and when it does it gives less of it. So the primary fuel map and 2nd fuel is, apparently, not an On/Off, but a %. So it may stay on the primary table, which it pretty much follows exactly, then suddenly you see it go very rich, which is the moment it switched to 2nd fuel. Then it may switch back to the primary, or may hover randomly between the two. I believe the Ex temps control both the when and how much. Then as previously mentioned, the Ex temps also limit power, despite the Ex temps set to not do that, it does it anyway. That tells me the settings in HP are incorrect, or there is yet another limiter we can't see in HP, who knows. The point is lower Ex temps will net some power. At least for me, because I see others tunes, or the OE tune, where the temps are at 1850 and it works fine. 1850 puts a hurtin on mine and I don't know what to make of that.
The other point is too much fuel too soon will also hurt power, so when it switches to the 2nd fuel map too early, it makes it feel soggy, and not nearly as crisp. So my primary fuel map is pretty close to the oem map, so it makes good power, then I try to control 2nd fuel enrichment with Ex temps, but still trying to decipher exactly how it works. The 2nd fuel enrichment is really only to control Ex temps and keep you from damaging eng parts. That and help control ping. When I was running gas the ping was a serious issue, now not so much. Same with cooling, the Eth cools better so I don't need to be as rich. With my E85 mix I can actually run the oem fuel map of .890 lambda at full boost and not ping, but I don't feel comfortable doing it.

[chevota]

Here's the next step up. This should get a response from it for sure.
Ex temps are lowered and torque tweaked. The torque tweak is the Normalized torque, which apparently is what it bases it's calculations on. So lowering it apparently lowers the torque # it calculates, so in turn it makes more power to get that torque # where it wants. My car will not make peak power without this mod, period. It's only a 10% difference but in my car the power difference is much more than 10%. It's also a big part of why my throttle is so sensitive.
Note on the Scanner I have HP and TQ, but next to them I have HP1 and TQ1. The HP & TQ are what the ECU calculates. The HP1 & TQ1 are that x 1.11, to estimate the actual power thanks to the Normalizer error. There's other tweaks that may or may not upset that calculated power, so it may be more than the HP1 & TQ1 reads, I just don't know.

This tune is still set so most of the gains are at 5K on up, but it will make more power across the whole range. Well, fingers crossed it will

2014 E550 chevota 5.hpt

[Rescu2000]

Ok. I'll give 4 and 5 a try tomorrow. I am Leaving town Sunday in a different car and I'll be gone a week so I'll be out of pocket a while.

I realize Torque and HP maximums do not translate to how a car really drives, but is it unrealistic to expect these cars to be able to have the power a stock viper has?

[Rescu2000]

Ok I tried #5 and its probably got as much power as we are going to get. It is head and shoulders above the OE tune. I had a motorcylce beside my who was annoyingly reving his engine so I punched it and let off the gas completely once he was 50 feet behind me. And yes he gunned his too. He was still WOT as he went by me (after finally catching up while I was giving ZERO gas). I think that was between the first and second log and I wasn't logging
My 0-60 is still coming in around 5 seconds, but I don't think I've had a good launch yet. My tires are brand new Michellin pilot Sport or something... They were not cheap and hook up good but I was getting wheel spin with ETC off and the traction light with it on.

Boost maxed out that time. Might be a bit much on the stock engine. I really was expecting this thing to get to a 4 second 0-60, but maybe that's unrealistic without the 4matic or sticky tires.

I also have the convertible, which I think has more restrictive down pipes. Everything is stock for now, but I may get some custom downpipes.

Thanks and I think this tune will work until I can learn enough to fine tune it. I'll invest in some wideband O2's if I need to. I plan on it for my LS engines anyway.

[Schnell]

Ok I tried #5 and its probably got as much power as we are going to get. It is head and shoulders above the OE tune. I had a motorcylce beside my who was annoyingly reving his engine so I punched it and let off the gas completely once he was 50 feet behind me. And yes he gunned his too. He was still WOT as he went by me (after finally catching up while I was giving ZERO gas). I think that was between the first and second log and I wasn't logging
My 0-60 is still coming in around 5 seconds, but I don't think I've had a good launch yet. My tires are brand new Michellin pilot Sport or something... They were not cheap and hook up good but I was getting wheel spin with ETC off and the traction light with it on.

Boost maxed out that time. Might be a bit much on the stock engine. I really was expecting this thing to get to a 4 second 0-60, but maybe that's unrealistic without the 4matic or sticky tires.

I also have the convertible, which I think has more restrictive down pipes. Everything is stock for now, but I may get some custom downpipes.

Thanks and I think this tune will work until I can learn enough to fine tune it. I'll invest in some wideband O2's if I need to. I plan on it for my LS engines anyway.

Good kill vs the bike 🙂

Our cars have wideband lambda sensors from the factory fyi. They are read as WB EQ 1 & 5 (bank 1 passenger side cyl 1-4 and bank 2 driver side - cyl 5-8) Also you should have the same DPs as a coupe.. But they are restrictive.

[Rescu2000]

Thanks! Good information!

[chevota]

Your temp is still high, specifically at cruise. Between that and how high it got before, it makes me wonder if your cooling sys is working right? Your ambient is cooler than mine and everything else looks the same, but you're simply hotter by a good bit. I would poke around and be certain you actually have a full radiator of water, and no BS blocking the rad and/or exit path. Most of the air escapes out under the eng, so if for example the plastic skid plate had a rats nest in it I suppose that could cause it. Doesn't hurt to look.
Could be the coolant, because somewhere in that year range they used some coolant that's not compatible with some other more common coolant, and if you mix them it will, apparently, gel. The result of that is obvious.
I remember online somewhere, someone said the wrong fluid was used in their benz and it gelled in the hose at the overflow tank and blocked flow. I'm fuzzy on the details but I thought he said it it make it appear it was full but it really wasn't? So I suppose you could be low on water but the tank looks fine. I can't imagine why they would ever make, or use, such a coolant, but if you have something that works fine, engineer it until it doesn't.
The adjustable part of the thermostat is a little heating element that heats the stat to get it to open. I only learned of this gizmo a few weeks ago. Kinda neat, but also a big fat "why?" It's a classic example of; just because you can do it, doesn't mean you should, because now it's one more thing to fail. KISS. Keep It Simple Stupid. I think it should have a classic 180 to 190deg stat, done.
You can hear the fan now right? With those fan settings and the higher temp, the fan should be kinda loud. Even when my temp is 205, at idle, I can hear it if I open the window. I don't believe this is your issue since you're hot at cruise, but doesn't hurt to check.

Still got some retard, which I 100% blame on the higher temp. All the more reason to figure your cooling issue out.

Your throttle is closing a lot, which is normal, so it's busy screwing you up all they way until 4th gear ~120 or so mph where it's said the TCU will finally stop doing that. But I suppose if I was able to get rid of that throttle closing issue, so can you?

Your boost is still lower than I expected above 5k. The more we do this the more I feel like you have the same issue I have, so maybe we'll eventually end up doing all my settings, excluding the Ethanol stuff of course.

The O2 reading on your Scanner has your widebands, so we've had that info all along.

[Rescu2000]

I can hear the fans. A few days ago I did add some coolant (the message came up on the dash). I used the purple coolant that is supposedly for our cars and with 50k miles on it when I got it, it should have had factory coolant. I suppose I could drain and replace the entire system to be sure.
Mercedes isn't the only one with the coolant gel issue. Apparently mixing non-HOAT and HOAT will do it in any car. Also if the manufacturer doesn't get all of the contaminants out of the block it can cause it.

I didn't notice any high heats before. I'll flash the stock tune back to it and check temps then. But that'll be in about a week. I'm headed out on vacation this morning in a different vehicle.