N/A to Turbo HELP PLEASE

[TireJohn]

Ive been trying to make a histogram for hours...the issur im having is, it only populates the first row on my histogram. All others stay blank... can someone please elaborate.. ive been searching and searching..

[murfie]

Focus 2.0.Channels2.xml

Open that channel config and take a log. I got an offline vehicle profile from your logs, so these should be what you have available.

With that log, you will want to select mass airflow period for the row parameter. I was having to do a user math to convert frequency to period which shoulldnt be needed.

Screenshot 2024-01-28 074058.png

My user math setup on logs you have been posting.

Screenshot 2024-01-28 073926.png

Note, you will also have to change the Short term fuel trim bank 1 (SAE) parameter as the new channel list does not have SAE channels. Non SAE channels should collect data much faster and display a more complete picture. the gear with the green check filters out all channels that are not in the log you have open. you can then say "no I know what I am doing" when asked for generic parameters.

The -20 / 20 will be reduced to -5 / 5 as it gets better. If you still have the sensor in the stock housing it should be good up til you need to scale it to higher lb/min values and lower periods. Watch for your injectors or pump to run out first tho.

[TireJohn]

okfinally... i was able to get this histogram working thanks to murfie! really appreciate it man! At first my graph numbers were in the 40s and 50s and after just a few logs and changes i now have my STFT down to fairly low numbers just like you told me! What do you think of these logs? Looking somewhat right?

[TireJohn]

so my next question is, do i just keep doing logs and updating the maf table until its 100% dialed in? Or do i need to make other changes now like driver demand ect? its going to be making more torque throughout the rpm range so wont the ecu see this and put some kind of limiter in place? or see a higher load and limit? I could copy all the load tables and expected torque tables from a Focus ST file, the engines and turbo are super similar! Also its running on wastegate spring pressure so boost low down and in general may be a little spicy, im not to sure what wastgate on a fiesta st turbo might be but should i change my calc map to reflect what the boost may be?

[murfie]

You are definetly making progress and getting a MAF table that works.

Theres a lot in the tune that needs to be scaled. Your stock file has data that will work great for load values less than .7-.8, those need to be maintained while removing some rows and freeing up table space for a few rows for above that load. in those higher load areas you can try the ST values as a start.

MAF gives you load, so out side of boost, no matter the RPM the data for load less than .8 should work fine. Its working on the transition into boost that is the unknown and what you will need to start tuning. Yes you will hit limits, just need to find them and correct them, no one is going to be able to tell you what those limits are unless you are capturing them in a log. Some channels will need to be removed and added as this proccess progresses. keeping the list short and targeted when scanning is important.

[TireJohn]

thank you sir! and sounds good i will try that! i tried a little driving in my parking lot at work, 1st seemed to be fairly drivable and even wot pulled really hard for a short second! but i tried again except this time i short shifted to second and tried to lean into it and it seemed to break up and not want to continue climbing the rpms.. do think this is where im hitting my load limits ii havnt changed yet? or something else?

[Pistol_91]

Compare your file with this file. This is basically what murf is talking about. Not sure what WOT lambda focus cars like but I put it to .8
Johns Focus v1.hpt

[murfie]

2.0-liter four-cylinder making 160 hp and 146 lb-ft of torque

From the stock LTT and TTL model
1.0 load = 147.5124 14.7 psi barometric pressure
Scaled up
2.0 load = 295.0248 14.7 psi of boost
3.0 load = 442.5372 29.4 psi of boost

To maintain points in this relationship and not have your tables get strange running through the HPT calculator

example torque axis values
0 14.75124 22.12686 44.25372 73.75621 103.25870 118.00994 199.14178 265.52232 368.78100 This scales torque to 2.5 load, load values in the stock table are almost aways higher than the TTL/LTT relationship of the model meaning they will breach 3.0. it also keeps the 14.75 and 22.12 rows that are used in torue control idle and return to idle.

example Load axis values
0.05 0.3 0.5 0.6 0.7 0.8 1.1 1.5 1.8 2.2 This scales load to 324.52728lbft of torque, torque values in the stock tables are almost always lower than the TTL/LTT relationship of the model. Some limits are not defined, and lowering this is the only option to not run into them. The relationship in the model is inverse based on 1.0 load = 147.5124 with RPM, but both torque and load will go up and down together. You can say 2.0 load = 199 instead of 2.0 load = 295.0248, if theres a limit above that you can't move out of the way.

YES a 2.0L at 2.5 load will be the same as a 5.0L at 1.0 load 368.78lbft and why these cars and mustangs torque models look very similar.

[Pistol_91]

Good info murf

[TireJohn]

So i tried plugging in the tune you said to try pistol, with the updated higher torque tables! it didnt seem to like it.. it keeps doing a high low surge after idling fine in closed loop for random periods of time.. all of a sudden it just starts stalling then jumping! im not sure whats going on now... the tables clearly have to be in the neighborhood of what you suggested, they all look accurate for what i think this car should roughly make... and i tried dialing in the maf with good results but still no change in our surge issue... What do you guys think?

[Pistol_91]

I'm still trying to perfect idle on my car as well and also had same issue initially after rescaling. I adjusted these values here and it helped the surge at idle a lot for me. I am currently trying to figure out an easy and faster process for getting idle to work perfectly, but for now adjusting these values should make your car drivable. Don't use the calculator. Just add 20% to those 2 cells and see if it gets better. If it does, then add 5% or so until it starts getting worse again. There should be a sweet spot. I wish someone on here had a dead set explanation on how to get idle nice and smooth but it's a mystery.
Screenshot 2024-02-01 204240.png

[murfie]

So i tried plugging in the tune you said to try pistol, with the updated higher torque tables! it didnt seem to like it.. it keeps doing a high low surge after idling fine in closed loop for random periods of time.. all of a sudden it just starts stalling then jumping! im not sure whats going on now... the tables clearly have to be in the neighborhood of what you suggested, they all look accurate for what i think this car should roughly make... and i tried dialing in the maf with good results but still no change in our surge issue... What do you guys think?

You need to be carefull about how you rescaled the load axis of your MBT spark tables. HPT may have done both your borderline and MBT tables with out you even knowing. Idle will be around 0.3 load when cold, once it warms up it will be less and that could make it better or worst. This is just comparing your MP0 MBT spark values at idle before and after your scaling. You are basically adding 5-6* of advance at idle the(torque model has to pull out), throttle is having to shut more than it should. Then its just a fight between the two controls, air and spark, never finding the sweet spot to achieve the desired idle RPM. Throttle opening and closing, the load jumping aorund starts to get the cams to move... its just a run away feedback loop at that point. Less spark at idle, means more throttle and idle RPM is easier to control.

Cam lope tunes can be tricky, just like actual cammed cars, because you need more throttle, but you also add spark advance to make the engine produce the amount of torque needed at idle with the ineffecient idle airflow. Stock cam positions and you are fine at 0* spark advance. 14-20* is where you want to be with cam lope cam angles.

Screenshot 2024-02-01 204310.png

Screenshot 2024-02-01 204241.png

Surge.jpg

[TireJohn]

I did as you said murph and changed my load and torque axis, i also did what pistol said and raised those 2 cells 20%... First log it seemed to improve but it was still alittle cold... thats why im thinking the second log wasnt as good... rergardless i dont seem to be making any traction.. the surging continued Im determined to get this, i just cant afford 700$ canadian for Vee to do it for me... :/

[murfie]

Something is still physically wrong with how you have your MAF sensor or it's a bad sensor.
These logs show it is not reporting air flow as a MAF normally would.

Pegging 1.0 load at less than 1000 RPM with 0 pedal input. WTH is even that.

[Pistol_91]

Lmao I was thinking the same thing. This log is so fucked up a tune isn't going to fix this guy's problem. Replace the sensor, make sure it's facing the right way, make sure it's not too close to the TB or end for the intake. Something is majorly wrong lol

[TireJohn]

Good eye guys! That would explain alot! Im wondering if it could just be covered in oil... regardless im going to get a new one but when i first put the car together my oil drain from my turbo was kinked and i didnt notice.... so it smoked like a freight train... maybe all the oil getting sent into the intake messed up the sensor ... not sure but regardless im getting a new one and will give that a try! Lets hope to see night and day results!

[Pistol_91]

I hope it fixes your problems

[TireJohn]

hey guys, so i cant get a new maf until next week... but in the meantime i decided to take mine out and clean it really well and see if that makes any difference.. i also decided to revert back to stock file and just for shits change all of my torque tables, spark tables, driver demand ect to match a focus st exactly! This has proved to be the best ive gotten so far! it doesnt idle hunt and surge between 2k and 200 RPMS anymore! so thats great! After a few logs and maf changes, it was running pretty well and driveable in my work parking lot! 1st gear felt like the throttle was closing at partial throttle and wouldnt accelerate the best unless i went WOT, then 1st gear right to redline works insanely well!! spins the tires from 3k to 6k!
If i short shift to second and floor it, it kinda of feels like its being held back but still pulls and seems to work fairly well! The biggest issue im having now i guess would be the fact that it almost stalls when returning to idle. It will go as low as 200 rpm then grab itself and shoot up and idle at 900 like its supposed too! Before idle was unreal... surging like crazy! now its good, it just doesnt like returning there after being in higher revs :/ If you guys wanna have a look and give me any feedback i would really appreciate it!

[TireJohn]

Hey guys, so the tune has come along ways thanks to Pistol_91! Cars now driving and hitting boost good. We made huge progress! Except for idle... it wont idle for the life of it, stalls at every complete stop.. Do you guys see anything in the tune that raises an eyebrow as far as why my idle is proving challenging?

[edcmat-l1]

I don't dip in the Ford section all that often, but this one sounded interesting.

Without even looking at your original, unmodified tune file, I can tell you, you have the idle area of the MAF table way too high. MAF @ idle is reading over 22 g/sec. That's insanely high for a 4 cyl. engine. What's happening is the airflow numbers are so high the torque management is pulling all the timing out of it. You're idling in the negatives. Roughly -4 to -5 degrees.

First thing to check is your BOV. If it's closed at idle you'll have all kinds of issues with a blow through MAF. It needs to be wide open at idle and venting any pressure.

If the BOV is open, you either have a whole bunch of work to do on your torque model or you need to put the MAF in a bigger tube, move it, something along those lines.