2021 F-150 Burble Logic

[M3T1]

For the life of me, I cannot figure out how to get the Burble logic in the Ford ECM to work. I started with settings from a 2019 Bullit Mustang. I had to modify a few things but I cannot get any burbles at all. I attached my file below for reference. Basically, I want light burbles in Normal mode and then heavier ones in Sport. I adjusted the Torque Clips, but I'm not getting anything. 0.150 is the value I use in my Mustang (Gen 2 so manual burble tune there) and it pops like CRAZY in that car until it hits fuel cut. Anyone know what I'm doing wrong?

Stock Burble.hpt

[Daddy1915]

just reduce the numbers in 44894 and 44895 and disable dfco.

[M3T1]

Isn't the whole point of the burble logic that you don't need to disable DFCO?

[Pistol_91]

You shouldn't have to. But if you're having issues. Maybe you should

[M3T1]

Does anyone know what the APP parameter is? The only thing I can think of is that I don't have the right values for that parameter.

[engineermike]

Accelerator pedal position

[engineermike]

I’ve messed with this until I was blue in the face. Basically you need fuel present and low timing for burbles. There is a minimum torque ratio set in the spark tr table for dfso. This torque ratio is generally set too high for burbles. Burble mode temporarily lowers the min tr in the right conditions and it works as intended. The problem I’ve had is that tr is used to reduce torque to whatever logic deems to be the desired deceleration torque. And if it reaches that torque before needing a very low torque ratio then it won’t command low timing because it doesn’t have to in order to reach low torque. So the next thing was to try to find a way to lower the target torque for decel, which is where I hit a roadblock. I haven’t been able to figure that out in hpt or pcmtec so I eventually brute forced it by lowering mbt in the specific load/speed/mapped point when I want the burbles to occur.

[M3T1]

I’ve messed with this until I was blue in the face. Basically you need fuel present and low timing for burbles. There is a minimum torque ratio set in the spark tr table for dfso. This torque ratio is generally set too high for burbles. Burble mode temporarily lowers the min tr in the right conditions and it works as intended. The problem I’ve had is that tr is used to reduce torque to whatever logic deems to be the desired deceleration torque. And if it reaches that torque before needing a very low torque ratio then it won’t command low timing because it doesn’t have to in order to reach low torque. So the next thing was to try to find a way to lower the target torque for decel, which is where I hit a roadblock. I haven’t been able to figure that out in hpt or pcmtec so I eventually brute forced it by lowering mbt in the specific load/speed/mapped point when I want the burbles to occur.

I was having this same issue trying to figure out how to slow down the DFSO entry and/or command lower target torque on my Mustang. It's a 2015, so it doesn't have the burble tables. I have a separate thread for that. This is good info though. I think I had the one of the APP parameters wrong because I didn't know what it was. I'm going to play with that tomorrow on my truck and see if that makes the burbles work.

[M3T1]

I got it. It was the APP enable parameter. I set that to 0% so that it allows for burbles whenever. Then I just use the RPM parameters to enable/disable. Seems to work now. One other thing I figured out is that the Lower Torque Clips in 44894 and 44895 act as a lower bound to the "Normal" mode burbles. So, you have to lower those if you want lower ratios than that for the Normal model burbles. The Sport mode burbles seem to disregard it no problem. In my case, I wanted the Normal mode burble ratio to be around 0.200 and the Sport to be 0.050. So, I had to lower those clips down to 0.200 for the Normal mode to work. They were set to 0.420 before, and it wouldn't go below that even if I set the Normal burble Target TR to 0.200.

[MustangKev8766]

Were you able to figure this out in PCMTEC?
I have been trying for like 6 months in HP Tuners and now PCMTEC. My tuner has it working by retarding the timing in low load and it works perfectly but would love to know how to use the burble logic.
Any advice or insight would be greatly appreciated! Thank you.

[MustangKev8766]

Engineermike....did you ever have any luck with the burble logic in PCMTEC? I've been trying for awhile as well!!.
I have it working by brute force like you but would love to get it working using the burble logic.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks!

[engineermike]

No, I never got it working properly. I could log the min TR and see it much lower using burble logic but the logic would never actually command a low enough coasting torque to actually use a lower TR. I tried figuring out how to get it to command less coasting torque but never had any luck.

[MustangKev8766]

Thanks for the response Engineermike! Yes that seems to be a common issue I'm hearing from everyone. I find it crazy that Ford has the logic there from the factory but getting it work properly seems to be such a pain in the ass. I'm currently working with a tuner right now using PCMTEC. We are messing with the settings in the burble logic on my 2019 Mustang GT 6 speed. If we get anywhere with this I will reply back to this thread.
Thanks again bro!

[engineermike]

No problem. I think the real key here is to understand how the logic determines the torque required during coastdown. If I understood that, then I think I could make headway.

[veeefour]

Burble works in every ford where this cal part is defined - just requires some other changes to work properly.

[M3T1]

See my last reply. I had to put the accelerator enable to 0. Anything above that and burble logic would disarm as soon as i let off the throttle. They really should just change this to an on/off switch. I don't get why there's a 0-100% accelerator pedal position range. The whole point is to do it off-throttle. So, anything above 0 is just going to disable it.

[MustangKev8766]

M3T1...thank you very much for the response. I am currently working with a tuner using PCMTEC but also have an RTD with HP Tuners Licensing. My car is a 2019 Mustang GT PP1 6 speed. I don't have the switch under the radio to change drive modes so not sure if that changes anything in terms of the settings? Are the only steps you did to get them to work the ones in your post back in March? I would so love to get these to work and I greatly appreciate your prior response and any advice you could give me. Thanks again M3T1!!

Mustangkev8766

[MustangKev8766]

I also meant to ask what is the difference between pedal level to "enable/activate" burbles and pedal level to "arm" burbles and it's just the enable/ activate one that I want to set to O%. What should the "arm" setting be at?
Thanks again!!

[engineermike]

There are 3 pedal settings here, and this is the Bullitt settings:

- APP rate trigger (ecm 44027) - set to -10%/s
- APP min (ecm 44029) - set to 5%
- Pedal level to detect burble is armed (not defined) - set to 35%

Being that none of these are set to 0, I'm not sure why it would need to be set to 0 to make it work in anything else.

With the Whipple cal, I was pretty easily able to get the burble flag to activate and prove it in the log. You could see the min TR was following the TR specified in the Torque Reduction Ratio tables, but it was treating it like a minimum not a target, and even though the minimum was very low it would not command a TR that low. Of course I could make it work by fudging the TR S-curves or the MBT, but those have other unintended consequences.

[M3T1]

There are 3 pedal settings here, and this is the Bullitt settings:

- APP rate trigger (ecm 44027) - set to -10%/s
- APP min (ecm 44029) - set to 5%
- Pedal level to detect burble is armed (not defined) - set to 35%

Being that none of these are set to 0, I'm not sure why it would need to be set to 0 to make it work in anything else.

With the Whipple cal, I was pretty easily able to get the burble flag to activate and prove it in the log. You could see the min TR was following the TR specified in the Torque Reduction Ratio tables, but it was treating it like a minimum not a target, and even though the minimum was very low it would not command a TR that low. Of course I could make it work by fudging the TR S-curves or the MBT, but those have other unintended consequences.

Interesting. I was logging the burble arm flag in my scanner on mine, and I needed the APP parameter set to 0 for it to ever arm the burble logic. Otherwise, what happened was it would arm when I was above 35% throttle and then immediately disarm when I let off the gas. So, it wouldn't burble at all no matter how low I set the TRs. Once I set the APP arm to 0%, it has the burble logic armed all the time and works great. Granted, this is on my F-150, not a Mustang. Maybe the logic works differently somehow?