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Thread: ANN vs VE tables

  1. #1
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    ANN vs VE tables

    Hi, I?ve got a GC SRT 6.4 hemi that has already been tuned, the ANN is turned off and the VE tables tuned,
    Is there any advantage to turning the ANN back on?
    Or just tune the VE tables?

    TIA

  2. #2
    most tuners turn them off as they dont have time to tune nn, from what i understand once VE is tuned you then can turn it back on and data log all the pips in the learn area at HP tuners.

    hey any chance you can show use your tune ?

  3. #3
    My 2015 is cam locked and has a supercharged, any benefits of turning NN back on?
    I am not the guy that tunes transmissions, our username is similar. If yo message me about I am not replying anymore.

  4. #4
    Tuner vndetta79's Avatar
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    If your cam phaser is locked, I don't see any advantage of using the Neural Network since you can't swing the cam to different angles. If you have a smaller camshaft with a phaser limiter installed, you're better off tuning the Neural Network. I've had good success with Neural Network and dialing the cam between advance and retard. The Neural Network runs multiple VE tables for the different cam angles. Gains are more noticeable with the factory cams though.

  5. #5
    I run a Comp Cams 274 Cam
    I am not the guy that tunes transmissions, our username is similar. If yo message me about I am not replying anymore.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by vndetta79 View Post
    The Neural Network runs multiple VE tables for the different cam angles.
    how did you determine that?

    not calling you a liar. very curious how you saw that

    Frank, why would you want to enable NN in your tune???

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    how did you determine that?

    not calling you a liar. very curious how you saw that

    Frank, why would you want to enable NN in your tune???
    I don't, just wanted to know if there would be any benefit.
    I am not the guy that tunes transmissions, our username is similar. If yo message me about I am not replying anymore.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    how did you determine that?

    not calling you a liar. very curious how you saw that

    Frank, why would you want to enable NN in your tune???
    That's the purpose of the ANN...simpler way to represent the complexity of many VE tables that would be needed for an engine with VVT cam.

    If its locked out, there's no need for the ANN.

  9. #9
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    Agreed. I only use ANN when working with a limited camshaft. Locked out cams get a revamped VE table.
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  10. #10
    As far as multiple cam tables for NN at least that's what it looks like if you use the NN trainer. Your basically tuning several VE table instead of one over various retard points of the cam. With a single cam like a hemi it's not to bad but OMG if you had 4 cams independently operating it would take a very long time

  11. #11
    Tuner vndetta79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    how did you determine that?

    not calling you a liar. very curious how you saw that

    Frank, why would you want to enable NN in your tune???
    When you open the NN Trainer file there's 5 intake and 5 exhaust angles to select, 5x5=25 different VE tables to adjust to optimize the Neural Network.

  12. #12
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    for the v6 maybe

    i tune hemis

    both lobes are on one cam

    not sure it works like that with both lobes on one cam (5 x 5)

    have you had good results with the trainer???

  13. #13
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    So using the NN and I I decide to use all 25 VE table, that?s a lot of tuning, are people there for days tuning all those tables ?
    Or is there an efficiency way to tune them quickly?

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by redmonaro View Post
    So using the NN and I I decide to use all 25 VE table, that?s a lot of tuning, are people there for days tuning all those tables ?
    Or is there an efficiency way to tune them quickly?
    There are not many "short cuts" on tuning... you either take the time and do it correctly or you will have a halfa** tune

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  15. #15
    Tuner vndetta79's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilSick View Post
    for the v6 maybe

    i tune hemis

    both lobes are on one cam

    not sure it works like that with both lobes on one cam (5 x 5)

    have you had good results with the trainer???
    I agree that not all tables are relative for a single cam. I was just responding to your question. In reality there's probably only 5 of the 25 tables really used, and that's without a limiter installed. Not knowing exactly what the PCM references, I just adjust them all. It doesn't take too much time to do it. I generally charge a but extra for using the NN Trainer to cover it.

  16. #16
    There is at least one small advantage to running ANN with a locked cam: the VE table available via the NNT is higher resolution than the smaller Bank 1 and Bank 2 VE tables.