Tuning around a ProFlex Commander on a 6.4

[Chubby Racer]

Has anyone tried this yet? Conceptually, are you just letting the commander handle the changing of injector pulsewidth, setting the timing for E85, and then just letting the knock sensors pull timing for 93? What's the best way to think about tuning with one of these units installed?

[Stoopalini]

Can't you use the High Octane timing tables for E85, and then use the base tables for 93?

The way I understand it, each run cycle will start with HO timing tables active and it will drop down to the non-HO tables based upon the thresholds defined in 44101, 44102 and 44103.

[LilSick]

Can't you use the High Octane timing tables for E85, and then use the base tables for 93?

The way I understand it, each run cycle will start with HO timing tables active and it will drop down to the non-HO tables based upon the thresholds defined in 44101, 44102 and 44103.

show me the logs of ANY 6.4 accessing the HO tables with one fuel and the standard tables with another

[Stoopalini]

show me the logs of ANY 6.4 accessing the HO tables with one fuel and the standard tables with another

I'm not sure if it's possible, but definitely worth testing.

[LilSick]

Has anyone tried this yet? Conceptually, are you just letting the commander handle the changing of injector pulsewidth, setting the timing for E85, and then just letting the knock sensors pull timing for 93? What's the best way to think about tuning with one of these units installed?

first off, you are starting with the wrong box - and you bought it from the wrong company!

i run eFlex Pro 2 boxes

none of the other companies offer the software and adjusting capabilities that eFlexfuel.com offers

i have their kits on all my cars and have sold a few to guys that i tune for too

everyone loves them, myself included

they just made me a dealer so hmu if yer interested - can save you some cash!

you can download their software for free

check it out!

far as timing goes - i do not not race my car around on straight pump gas so dunno

might not not hurt anything (letting the KR do its job) but i would not recommend running my alky calibration on straight pump gas

its nice to know that i can drive my car wherever i want and run whatever fuel is avail tho


*they have only been in the USA for a minute but have been crushing it in Europe for 15+ years

[Stoopalini]

So I went through my tune and copied all the base timing tables over to the HO tables, then I adjusted the HO part-time and HO WOT tables from 3k RPM and up by flattening out the timing above 0.6 or so aircharge and up.

Then I coped the HO Mode threshold values from a Hellcat/TRX tune file as well.

I plan to load this later this evening and test where it gets the timing from. I don't get 4+ degrees of ST knock retard with my current timing, so if this works ... I should see it pulling from the HO tables instead of the Base.

HO_Spark_Test_Tables.JPG

[LilSick]

that is not how i would determine which table is being accessed...

load this and log 5 mins of driving

got to wot once for a couple of seconds

15=base PT; 22.5=HO

2.5=base WOT; 7.5=HO

i zero'd the spark thermostat for the test

wont hurt the motor or the plugs and you will be able to prove which table it is using

[LilSick]

might not not hurt anything (letting the KR do its job) but i would not recommend running my alky calibration on straight pump gas

i build motors, tune and race cars

i am not a writer and do not always type what i mean accurately so i want to clear that ^^^ up

you could "run" my cars on any fuel that is available with a pro 2 box and my race alky calibration loaded in the pcm

you could drive my challenger from here to new york like that

on whatever blend of gas and ethanol was present (the app lets you watch that on your phone as you drive away from the station after filling up)

i would not go WOT without putting some ethanol in it or swapping in my street file if less than 60%

that ^^^ is what i meant

i run one pcm on the street and when i get to the track i swap it out to race

for the most part that is the only place i go wot - unless i feel like doing a big ole burnout : )

[Chubby Racer]

Can't you use the High Octane timing tables for E85, and then use the base tables for 93?

The way I understand it, each run cycle will start with HO timing tables active and it will drop down to the non-HO tables based upon the thresholds defined in 44101, 44102 and 44103.

I don't understand the logic that would result in the system switching between the tables.


EDIT: also, I'm not sure the 6.4 has those HO tables. I'll have to look.

[Chubby Racer]

first off, you are starting with the wrong box - and you bought it from the wrong company!

i run eFlex Pro 2 boxes

none of the other companies offer the software and adjusting capabilities that eFlexfuel.com offers

i have their kits on all my cars and have sold a few to guys that i tune for too

everyone loves them, myself included

they just made me a dealer so hmu if yer interested - can save you some cash!

you can download their software for free

check it out!

far as timing goes - i do not not race my car around on straight pump gas so dunno

might not not hurt anything (letting the KR do its job) but i would not recommend running my alky calibration on straight pump gas

its nice to know that i can drive my car wherever i want and run whatever fuel is avail tho


*they have only been in the USA for a minute but have been crushing it in Europe for 15+ years

eflex doesn't make a kit for the grand cherokee.

[LilSick]

yeah they do

i am doing one right now : )

hmu!

[Chubby Racer]

Strange. They don’t list it on the site.

[Stoopalini]

I don't understand the logic that would result in the system switching between the tables.


EDIT: also, I'm not sure the 6.4 has those HO tables. I'll have to look.

The logic is the PCM uses the HO spark tables as default, and then if long term or short term knock retard exceeds the set thresholds, it changes to use the base spark tables for the rest of the run cycle.

The Hellcats have this set from the factory, but not sure if non-HC operating systems can use the fields or not.

It seems the HO tables were added at some point, not sure when though.

[LilSick]

where is the 5 min log from that tune i wrote? yours is the only 5.7 i have ever seen with those tables. lets see if they are really accessed.

[Stoopalini]

where is the 5 min log from that tune i wrote? yours is the only 5.7 i have ever seen with those tables. lets see if they are really accessed.

How many 2021 and up vehicles have you tuned? I think these tables were added to all 2021 and up GPEC2A operating systems (maybe earlier than 2021, not sure?), as even my daughter's 2023 V6 Challenger GT has them.

2023_Chally_GT_OEM_Backup.hpt


I didn't load the tune you modified because a flat 22.5* of spark advance across the entire part throttle table will definitely cause more than 4* of KR with my setup, and it would happen as soon as I gave it any throttle. Any kind of light acceleration easily brings me up to 0.6g aircharge and 1.0 PRatio. I'm often cruising in the 0.50 - 0.70 PRatio range just driving around town. Even a semi-aggressive PT stab will bring my aircharge up to 0.9g - 1.0g ... Plus the thresholds were still set to zero in your suggested tune, so it wouldn't have entered HO mode even if capable.

I did load the tune I created though, and it definitely did something strange. The throttle felt spongy and down on power. When I look at the log though, it's tough to tell what tables it was accessing. I get why your approach was to set the PT and WOT tables to a flat number across the entire table and zero out the hot and cold spark tables ... to make it easier to see in the log ... but that much timing will absolutely cause knock retard for me. I need the tables to still be contoured, but different enough between HO and Base to easily see which it is accessing, when.

Here's the log from my file. During the higher aircharge values, it does go above the value set in the HO table, which makes me think it's not accessing them at that time ... but the way the throttle felt tells me it was definitely doing something different. It's too bad there isn't a channel I can log to show if HO mode is active or not.

Log: TH_11072024_Base_HO-Spark_Test.hpl
HO Spark Test File: TH_11072024_Base_HO-Spark_Test.hpt
Base file: TH_11072024_Base.hpt

If you load the Base file, and then compare it to my HO Spark Test file ... you'll see the only thing I changed was the HO spark tables and the High Octane threshold values. Because of how the throttle felt, I think either it was referencing the HO tables at some points or ... HPT has some tables mis-labeled again ... like the MBT or something?

[Chubby Racer]

The logic is the PCM uses the HO spark tables as default, and then if long term or short term knock retard exceeds the set thresholds, it changes to use the base spark tables for the rest of the run cycle.

The Hellcats have this set from the factory, but not sure if non-HC operating systems can use the fields or not.

It seems the HO tables were added at some point, not sure when though.

My ‘15 GC (GPEC2) doesn’t have them.

[LilSick]

How many 2021 and up vehicles have you tuned? I think these tables were added to all 2021 and up GPEC2A operating systems (maybe earlier than 2021, not sure?), as even my daughter's 2023 V6 Challenger GT has them.

2023_Chally_GT_OEM_Backup.hpt


I didn't load the tune you modified because a flat 22.5* of spark advance across the entire part throttle table will definitely cause more than 4* of KR with my setup, and it would happen as soon as I gave it any throttle. Any kind of light acceleration easily brings me up to 0.6g aircharge and 1.0 PRatio. I'm often cruising in the 0.50 - 0.70 PRatio range just driving around town. Even a semi-aggressive PT stab will bring my aircharge up to 0.9g - 1.0g ... Plus the thresholds were still set to zero in your suggested tune, so it wouldn't have entered HO mode even if capable.

I did load the tune I created though, and it definitely did something strange. The throttle felt spongy and down on power. When I look at the log though, it's tough to tell what tables it was accessing. I get why your approach was to set the PT and WOT tables to a flat number across the entire table and zero out the hot and cold spark tables ... to make it easier to see in the log ... but that much timing will absolutely cause knock retard for me. I need the tables to still be contoured, but different enough between HO and Base to easily see which it is accessing, when.

Here's the log from my file. During the higher aircharge values, it does go above the value set in the HO table, which makes me think it's not accessing them at that time ... but the way the throttle felt tells me it was definitely doing something different. It's too bad there isn't a channel I can log to show if HO mode is active or not.

Log: TH_11072024_Base_HO-Spark_Test.hpl
HO Spark Test File: TH_11072024_Base_HO-Spark_Test.hpt
Base file: TH_11072024_Base.hpt

If you load the Base file, and then compare it to my HO Spark Test file ... you'll see the only thing I changed was the HO spark tables and the High Octane threshold values. Because of how the throttle felt, I think either it was referencing the HO tables at some points or ... HPT has some tables mis-labeled again ... like the MBT or something?

contempt prior to investigation

wont be a problem

the tip in will pull it back when you first crack the throttle

load n log and it will be clear which table is being accessed

[LilSick]

My ‘15 GC (GPEC2) doesn’t have them.

he prolly does not have them either bro : )

dont trip... we do not need them!

as long as you are above 60 percent ethanol you will be fine to go wot with my alcohol tune present

data logging PROVES this

the box straightens out the mixture as alcohol content changes after a fill up

think about it - ethanol is equivalent to 120+ octane

if you are at 50% content that is half the tank approx 90 octane and half the tank over 120 for a avg of 105 octane

timing is torque : )

[LilSick]

lets see if that 5.7 durango uses those tables or not

[Stoopalini]

contempt prior to investigation

wont be a problem

the tip in will pull it back when you first crack the throttle

load n log and it will be clear which table is being accessed

LOL, it's not contempt man ... you know me better than that! I'm not skeered, and will try a lot of stuff just for the learning experience.

As you saw when we tested out different timing maps though, a lot of KR happened at much less timing.

KR-1.JPG

KR-2.JPG

So even if the PCM was using the HO timing tables, it would drop out due to KR exceeding the 44101, 44102, and 44103 thresholds.

I'll check out the last two you posted ... even if it drops out immediately, I guess I'd still see the 22.5* for a bit ...