GTR-230 Tuning Basics

[Swampdonkey]

Guys,

I'd like to start adding parts (cam, sc or wheel to oem, exhaust, ic, etc.) to this ski when it warms up, so I'm trying to get spooled up on tuning. I ordered the O2 install kit and the spartan 3 with the lsu adv. Looks like it's just a couple wires and it's already in the dropdown under can hardware in the scanner.

I think I am going to get set up with the scanner and generate some logs on the stock ski first, to get an idea of what I'm doing/looking for.

What do you guys typically have as scanner inputs, linear display (input graphed vs. time), and graph/histogram display up and running when you data log? What is important to both spot problems, and adjust the VE table? Seems there are multiple ways to do everything... SAE vs. "generic" inputs for example...

I assume if I scale the row and column axis on the ve table, I'll loose some fidelity, in other words, the 20x30 matrix is a fixed value. No cells will be added. Is that true?

Should I be interpolating the ve percentages like most of the car tuners do as a start when expanding the table or just go with stock values and adjust after logging some time? (not much powersports tuning demos out there)

Would it make the most sense to just copy table values from an existing 300 ski, I would assume Sea Doo has some pretty accurate table data/tune state for their stuff?

I've got a ton more, but I think I need to crawl, walk, run...

Thank you,

Swampdonkey

[JT_alex]

Guys,

I'd like to start adding parts (cam, sc or wheel to oem, exhaust, ic, etc.) to this ski when it warms up, so I'm trying to get spooled up on tuning. I ordered the O2 install kit and the spartan 3 with the lsu adv. Looks like it's just a couple wires and it's already in the dropdown under can hardware in the scanner.

I think I am going to get set up with the scanner and generate some logs on the stock ski first, to get an idea of what I'm doing/looking for.

What do you guys typically have as scanner inputs, linear display (input graphed vs. time), and graph/histogram display up and running when you data log? What is important to both spot problems, and adjust the VE table? Seems there are multiple ways to do everything... SAE vs. "generic" inputs for example...

I assume if I scale the row and column axis on the ve table, I'll loose some fidelity, in other words, the 20x30 matrix is a fixed value. No cells will be added. Is that true?

Should I be interpolating the ve percentages like most of the car tuners do as a start when expanding the table or just go with stock values and adjust after logging some time? (not much powersports tuning demos out there)

Would it make the most sense to just copy table values from an existing 300 ski, I would assume Sea Doo has some pretty accurate table data/tune state for their stuff?

I've got a ton more, but I think I need to crawl, walk, run...

Thank you,

Swampdonkey

I will take a seat!
Interested in tuning 230 engines, but on stock engine for the moment, people won't waste much money ,they prefer to buy a 300 instead.

[Swampdonkey]

JT, I figured it would be the same in principle. A wise man would prob do just that, I think Im gonna throw some parts at it and see. It would be cool if I could run with a bud who has a bone stock 300😁 do you happen to have an oem 300 base file I could compare ve, map, etc.?

[Tbranella]

JT, I figured it would be the same in principle. A wise man would prob do just that, I think Im gonna throw some parts at it and see. It would be cool if I could run with a bud who has a bone stock 300 do you happen to have an oem 300 base file I could compare ve, map, etc.?

here's one.
but there's NO performance gain from any exhaust mods. so save your money on buying an exhaust.

on the 300 tune, don't copy any of the 300 tables to the 230, they won't work properly. 300 is a different motor than the 230.

[Swampdonkey]

Tbranella,

Much appreciated brotha! I will keep that one in mind. I know the cam holds this motor back, I want to do the calas cam, retainers/rockers and unsure on the sc, is a wheel in the 215/255/260 charger as good as a 300 charger with the PTO mod?

What I wanna do is get a fundamental understanding of the tuning process. What is important to monitor (spark, timing, afr (lambda/phi))and how best to monitor with the wideband. I know we don't have stft/ltft if we're open loop, so I suppose we are logging the eq error and applying that as a correction factor to the ve table.

Is there a safe starting point once the mods start coming?

As I am switching parts, should I do it all in one fell swoop, should I change one parameter at a time and log/tune, etc.

I just wanna start tinkering. I get the easy button is just go to the store and grab a 325...

V/R,

Swampdonkey

[Tbranella]

Tbranella,

Much appreciated brotha! I will keep that one in mind. I know the cam holds this motor back, I want to do the calas cam, retainers/rockers and unsure on the sc, is a wheel in the 215/255/260 charger as good as a 300 charger with the PTO mod?

What I wanna do is get a fundamental understanding of the tuning process. What is important to monitor (spark, timing, afr (lambda/phi))and how best to monitor with the wideband. I know we don't have stft/ltft if we're open loop, so I suppose we are logging the eq error and applying that as a correction factor to the ve table.

Is there a safe starting point once the mods start coming?

As I am switching parts, should I do it all in one fell swoop, should I change one parameter at a time and log/tune, etc.

I just wanna start tinkering. I get the easy button is just go to the store and grab a 325...

V/R,

Swampdonkey

it costs a lot of money to make a 230 as fast as a 300 that just the GPS limiter removed. LOL

VE tables are not changed when tuning the 300, it's all done in the timing and fuel tables as well as the torque management tables.

[Swampdonkey]

Tbranella,
I get that. I also just realized you can get a polytec small ski with a 300 in it now from the factory, which really makes throwing a few grand in parts at it silly.

I am 99% sure I am doing that though, just for the adventure!

[Swampdonkey]

Ok, so from what you are saying, when tuning the 300, (basically what I will be tuning once a cam, sc wheel, intercooler, springs and retainer are installed), there isnt a dramatic difference in airflow change, so you are just adding timing that sea doo left on the table and a bit more fuel in the pe table. That makes sense.

For my application, since I am dramatically changing airflow, wouldnt I be adjusting the ve table to account?

I used the comparitor on the oem 300 file you sent and it is within a few percent of the 230 for over half the tables just goes up dramatically at higher rpm and boost.

Seems like for my application that would be a good start point, no?

[RUTHLESS]

Ok, so from what you are saying, when tuning the 300, (basically what I will be tuning once a cam, sc wheel, intercooler, springs and retainer are installed), there isnt a dramatic difference in airflow change, so you are just adding timing that sea doo left on the table and a bit more fuel in the pe table. That makes sense.

For my application, since I am dramatically changing airflow, wouldnt I be adjusting the ve table to account?

I used the comparitor on the oem 300 file you sent and it is within a few percent of the 230 for over half the tables just goes up dramatically at higher rpm and boost.

Seems like for my application that would be a good start point, no?

we have a setup for them 230 to go 84-85mph with good acceleration. also, you could change to a 300 supercharger with conversion and make more boost

[Swampdonkey]

Thank you Ruthless, that was one of the questions I had. So an oem 300 charger will make more boost everywhere than drop in fizzle et or x4?

[Swampdonkey]

I know alot of you all are doing this as a job, and much of what goes on here is to help support/promote the business. I certainly appreciate the help, but just so there is no confusion, I want to tune this myself, and if mistakes are made, it will be part of the learning process. I already know the other easy button install parts and pay for a tune, but I want to get into this as a hobby, just for the experience.

[Swampdonkey]

I was looking at the "limiter removal" vid from activejetsport, I wouldn't have noticed those couple instances of 24 degrees right at the max load - 8350 rpm spot on the table.

Another question I have is how the ecu behaves when outside those bounds? If the ski has no limit, has the timing to achieve, say 8500 rpm, but the spark table doesn't define that range, how does the ecu know what the spark should be? Is it "interpolating" forward like it does between cells on the graph?

[RUTHLESS]

Thank you Ruthless, that was one of the questions I had. So an oem 300 charger will make more boost everywhere than drop in fizzle et or x4?

Ummm, no, I would use any other company for the wheel, and ET is no longer in business; if you are doing your tuning, that's fine. Have fun

[Swampdonkey]

Thanks Ruthless.

The motor has to come out for the flywheel bolts, makes sense to do the pto cover mod. I'm just going to get the wheel for now and have the ability later to go with the 300 charger.

I am trying to keep the cost reasonable, too. I think the MSRP for the little plastic ski with a 300 is about 17. I was right around 12 plus tax on this one, so if I can bump it up to 300 for a couple grand, it's a win.

Don't get me wrong, 230 is plenty for slinging the thing around, and I also appreciate the imprecise, playful hull. The fiberglass ones are probably stuck to the water. 64-65 is kinda low though, considering that 130 we made a 170 last season now runs 58-59 on smooth cold river .

[JT_alex]

we have a setup for them 230 to go 84-85mph with good acceleration. also, you could change to a 300 supercharger with conversion and make more boost

Hi,do you have some files for stock 230 stock engine?!on these models people don?t wans waste money on aditional hardware.

[RUTHLESS]

I dont have any saved

[Swampdonkey]

Lemme post mine.

[Swampdonkey]

How do you attach files? I will send it via email if it won't let me on this forum, just let me know.


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