S10 2.2 Turbo Help

[mys10isbad]

I have been playing around with Hp Tuner for a few weeks on my 2000 S10 2.2 which has had a turbo and performance cylinder head added. The turbo runs at a max of 8psi (internal) with a 12: FMU, which I kow is not needed as its a flex-fuel motor, but woud like to keep the FMU if possible. Injectors are stock. I am having an issue with running lean and knock retard. I have adjusted the fuel some, but still run lean under WOT with full boost. How can I reamidy this easily? I do not totally understand computer tuning, but am trying to learn. Not really sure which table I should be adjusting. Later tonight I may add my log and tune files for review, but do not have them with me currently. Any advice on knock retard would be great also, although I am not too worried as the knock is minimal, just not sure if its happening during boost or not. To me it does not appears to be knocking during boost. Heck, if anybody wants to play around with my stock tune, I am willing to send their way and try it out.

[Bill@HPTuners]

Post a scanner log showing the issue, your stock file & your modified file.

[imphat0260]

Post a scanner log showing the issue, your stock file & your modified file.

Also, what size turbo is it? We can tell you more after seeing the logs (I assume you have a wideband on it, and I hope you are logging it) . Although we have not seen the logs/file yet, I would venture to say that your injectors are maxed. I would personally get some bigger injectors and ditch the FMU. Before you go crazy on changing tables, please make sure you read the stickies. You are attempting to tune an Alpha-N system with boost. While its not the most ideal situation, it can be done.

[mys10isbad]

Again, I will post files I have tonight. I am not running a wideband. Was going to go that route, but talked myself out of it somehow. I also understand, its hard to tune a computer that has never seen boost before. If there is a ECM I can swap instead of using factory, I may be willing to go that route also, but justsounds like that will be more issues than gains.

[imphat0260]

Again, I will post files I have tonight. I am not running a wideband. Was going to go that route, but talked myself out of it somehow. I also understand, its hard to tune a computer that has never seen boost before. If there is a ECM I can swap instead of using factory, I may be willing to go that route also, but justsounds like that will be more issues than gains.

If you are not running a wideband and are still on stock injectors, I would not drive the truck in boost at all... You are asking for trouble. The truck can be tuned, but you may need to learn some basics before you attempt to change something that you do not understand. I suggest you go get a wideband ASAP. Also, you may want to see if anybody is local to you that may be willing to help you learn/tune.

[mys10isbad]

here is what i have for stock tune and logs. I would love somebody around me to teach me how to tune. i will admit a am new to this and understand very little, but thats half the fun.

[imphat0260]

Really need to get a Wideband, bigger injectors, and back off some of that timing... One you do that, get some logs and we can start to guide you through. First lesson: Do not attempt to tune around problems

[csxtreme]

stock injectors arent good for much.
I added 42.5's right off the bat when I turboed my s-10.
my tune is a bit different than what you would want since I run e-85

[mys10isbad]

Many people have run turbos without chaging injectors on S10's, maybe they all had issues I dont know, I am not totally opposed to chagning mine either. Whats a good replacment? I also now plan to run E85. When prevous stated I was running 87 octane, I was trying everything to see some differances. Really had not noticed any more knock between them. Just for info, this is a daily driver so not going for max HP, just going for a good tune. Would be nice to have a max hp tune also, and change as needed, but max hp and Michigan winters most likely will not be a good thing.

[imphat0260]

Many people have run turbos without chaging injectors on S10's, maybe they all had issues I dont know, I am not totally opposed to chagning mine either. Whats a good replacment? I also now plan to run E85. When prevous stated I was running 87 octane, I was trying everything to see some differances. Really had not noticed any more knock between them. Just for info, this is a daily driver so not going for max HP, just going for a good tune. Would be nice to have a max hp tune also, and change as needed, but max hp and Michigan winters most likely will not be a good thing.

Many people drink and drive too, does that mean you should? You need to change the injectors and get a wideband. Next you need to figure out if you are going to be running E85 or premium and stick with it and tune for that criteria.. Stop using the 87 octane and back off the timing, those are 2 big reasons you are getting knock.

[mys10isbad]

imphat - I will run E85 consistantly, well unless I need fuel and do not have the option of E85, obviously. I came to this site for advice, I know I am new to tuning and do not understand it very well at all. I will be the first to admitt that. I feel you are jumping down my throat. If you could please explain why a wideband is needed over a narrow band. Also can you make a recommendation on injectors? Dont want to spend a fortune. If i run a wideband, is a controller needed? Or can it be wired up somehow with out a controller? Heck I would even ask for some advice on backing off the timimg and how/where to acheive this?

[imphat0260]

imphat - I will run E85 consistantly, well unless I need fuel and do not have the option of E85, obviously. I came to this site for advice, I know I am new to tuning and do not understand it very well at all. I will be the first to admitt that. I feel you are jumping down my throat. If you could please explain why a wideband is needed over a narrow band. Also can you make a recommendation on injectors? Dont want to spend a fortune. If i run a wideband, is a controller needed? Or can it be wired up somehow with out a controller? Heck I would even ask for some advice on backing off the timimg and how/where to acheive this?

First off, sorry if you feel that I am "jumping down your throat" but I am not. There are a lot of people that come on here or call/email me looking for handouts. I am more than happy to help anyone, but you need to realize you are not going to get a lot of help from people with when you are not taking their advice into consideration. I applaud you for wanting to learn, but with learning you will need to learn how to search for information. There are a lot of great resources here(members/stickies/threads).

As for the wideband, the reason you need it is because the narrowband can not read the areas with accuracy and without it you are flying blind. Most wideband kits include a controller and guage. I personally recommend the AEM UEGO and install these in most of my customers vehciles. As for the injectors, I would not get anyting smaller than a 42# and if you plan on running higher boost, you may want to opt to get bigger injectors. I would also strongly reccomend reading the stickies and picking up a few books on tuning so you can understand more. Not "jumping down your throat", but if you do not understand what are changing and how it is all working, you should not be changing anything...

Please start here....
http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11178

[mys10isbad]

also I am sorry for jumping at you like that. I am sure, which you can tell, still very clueless to this whole tuning aspect. I have been reading and reading, but just so much to learn, and I knew this when I purchased my tuner. With running a wideband the stock computer will see this info? I ask as still not 100% sure how the wideband will work as I do not have the pro tuner which from what i can tell will let you log the widband right to the pro unit. Would be nice to find somebody over by me that would tune with my software and not charge an arm and a leg to do so. That way i still own the tune and can change as needed as I learn or add more to the motor.

[loppad]

Hi Imphat0260,

I'm wondering how this S10 Turbo project ended?:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16830

Is it really necessary to change the “VE Offset” as “turboS10” did?

If it wasn’t necessary, how do you add fuel in boosted areas in these Alpha-N computers if VE tables only have up 100% VE?

Want to put a turbo in a S10 very similar to these (1998, 2.2L maybe 8 or 10psi) but need more info.

Thanks!

loppad

[imphat0260]

Hi Imphat0260,

I'm wondering how this S10 Turbo project ended?:

http://www.hptuners.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16830

Is it really necessary to change the “VE Offset” as “turboS10” did?

If it wasn’t necessary, how do you add fuel in boosted areas in these Alpha-N computers if VE tables only have up 100% VE?

Want to put a turbo in a S10 very similar to these (1998, 2.2L maybe 8 or 10psi) but need more info.

Thanks!

loppad

Z's (owner of the S10 in link you posted) truck runs pretty good. He has a very conservative tune but he also happy with it and learned a lot. I did not do the tune for him, but helped him and explained the changes. He also learned alot about his components and why you do not tune around problems. The owner of the truck just ordered some new flanges from me and is redoing some stuff to make it cleaner and an overall better setup. I will be helping him retune on the dyno when he gets all done (no charge because he really shows an interest and I see that).. I guess you can say I am taking him under my wing....

As far as the VE question, 0% offset will allow you to get 100% VE. When you raise the offset, you enable yourself to achieve values greater than 100%. This is how you will get your fueling for the forced induction. What exactly are your goals and what components do you plan on using?

[turboS10]

[QUOTE=imphat0260]Z's (owner of the S10 in link you posted) truck runs pretty good. He has a very conservative tune but he also happy with it and learned a lot. I did not do the tune for him, but helped him and explained the changes. He also learned alot about his components and why you do not tune around problems. The owner of the truck just ordered some new flanges from me and is redoing some stuff to make it cleaner and an overall better setup. I will be helping him retune on the dyno when he gets all done (no charge because he really shows an interest and I see that).. I guess you can say I am taking him under my wing....

heheh thanks Ryan, couldn't do it without you tho, and whats up with those flanges??

[loppad]

Hey turboS10! Good that you join us! I have some questions if you don't mind:

How many psi you set in the turbo at the end?

Is it true that S10 have very bad spark advance even for normal aspirated?

Thanks!

[turboS10]

Hey turboS10! Good that you join us! I have some questions if you don't mind:

How many psi you set in the turbo at the end?

Is it true that S10 have very bad spark advance even for normal aspirated?

Thanks!

hehhe, iam running 10psi now but i want to go up to 13 or so in the next few month's

and iam not really sure ,, on what u mean by that , i have heard of people having problem when they switch there plugs to something other than ac delco but iam running ngk for a couple of months and i don't have any problems

[imphat0260]

Is it true that S10 have very bad spark advance even for normal aspirated?

Thanks!

Its pretty conservative, but most the stock parameters are...

[loppad]

Yeah, imphat0260, that's what I meant: "Its pretty conservative"
I've seen 14 degrees at idle and at WOT you hardly get 20's!!

What other parameters you see "conservative" in S10 imphat0260?

thanks!