Hey guys...I got some 42.5# injectors last night, and installing and tuning my 06 SS/SC (stock) next week. I hear that these mods can walk stage 2 cars (no pulley just yet) Anyway is there anything specific I need to get or do before I get tuned?
I am planning to up my redline to 7200 RPM, remove torque management and maybe limit boost by 40% in first gear. And of course put use to the new injectors. Thanks guys! Tell me what your experiences were or just what you think.
Bump...So??
Without a pulley You will gain nothing by going to larger injectors and there is not much to be had by a tune aloneOriginally Posted by 06superchargedbalt
Stage 2 is fast, for the dollar, high 13s with nothing but a stage 2 gauranteed 245 at the wheel.
If you go smaller than the stage 2 pulley you will need to go to 60 lb injectors to get enough fuel.
The best you can expect even with lots of mods is 250 wheel.
The blower limits you to this power level no matter how fast you spin it.
Now I make a Turbo conversion kit that makes 330 wheel with 60 lb injectors.
Gains of 80 hp and 120 lb torque over stage 2 are typical.
^^ most of which is false information
Area was making close to 300whp with the M62 blower..lots of mods but he was doing it. Alot of people make over 250whp..hell myself makes 266whp on a 2.9 pulley. with AFR's around 10.2-10.5 under WOT with 20 degrees total timing (very very conservative seeing as I have meth injection also)
You can run a 2.9 pulley with stage 2 injectors, if you run meth and/or return fuel system. Hell I do it all the time and my IDC are no where near what others are.
I'm going to be swapping my pulley back to a 3.1 pulley here shortly and I have 60 installed now that I sold my stage 2 injectors..\\\
I have never scanned IDC's on a stock pulley/stock injector car but I am pretty positive that the stock injectors are close to the limit with the stock pulley especially when you rev higher than stock limiter.. Stage 2 injectors will work well with a tune for you
Last edited by Ryze; 09-26-2008 at 11:56 PM.
First off he said he had NO PULLEY.
Second Owning a SuperFlow Chassis Dyno and Running it every day except Sunday, I question some of the numbers that are posted, I don't question anyones integrity but the Dyno they are using.
I had a Cobalt Dyno Day this past Spring we dynoed 16 SS balts all of which were modded varying degrees all of which thought they had more power than they really did.
I don't think there was one car over 245 hp, Seems like the more parts they had the less power they made anywhere from 202 to 225 was the average.
Now you might say My Dyno is Low, It's NOT, It is Just Accurate!
Every car that rolls off my Dyno can back up the power at the track with Power to Weight Math for MPH in the Quarter.
Third even if you can lay down big numbers on a Short Dyno Pull the car Wont carry the Power to the finish line and Won't run the numbers at the track, has to do with heat soak from overspinning the Tiny supercharger.
The only shot you have of making more than 250 whp consistantly with that little blower is Nitrous
If you think you make 266 go to the track and lay down some 106 mph runs.
My Cobalt has 240 wheel and goes 13.8 103-104 MPH
I built Cobalts for Customers that means they have to be Reliable under all conditions, What you do with your car is Your Business and Your Money.
We have 400 WHP cobalts rolling out the door.
If you going to call me a Liar you better bring bigger guns.
Ted.
actually not entirely true. Raise the rev limiter and some timing adjustments on a stock ss/sc and you are already maxing out the stock injectors. In dyno testing we picked up on an average of 6-10whp over a tuned stock pullied car by switching to 42's, also made it able to run 25 degrees of timing. I've had my car with stock pulley and a tune to [email protected] on stock tires (bald and shot at that). On Dr's it would have definitely gone faster.
on stock pulley's and tunes with the 42's I've had numerous cars over the 250whp mark. (not by much, but they were) with a few supporting mods
2006 cobalt (no more turbo)
m62 2.7 pulley, E85, 79lb/hr injectors, 4-2-1 longtube header, airbox mod, stock catback
1998 Trans am 5.3 iron block 317 heads 88mm turbo e85 105lb/hr injectors, twin 255's.... build in progress
2014 wrx mild tune 18psi pump gas
im not questioning your credibility at all. but it has been proven that these cars can make more than 250whp on this blower. just because you haven't had one on your dyno doesn't mean it doesn't happen.First off he said he had NO PULLEY.
Second Owning a SuperFlow Chassis Dyno and Running it every day except Sunday, I question some of the numbers that are posted, I don't question anyones integrity but the Dyno they are using.
I had a Cobalt Dyno Day this past Spring we dynoed 16 SS balts all of which were modded varying degrees all of which thought they had more power than they really did.
I don't think there was one car over 245 hp, Seems like the more parts they had the less power they made anywhere from 202 to 225 was the average.
Now you might say My Dyno is Low, It's NOT, It is Just Accurate!
Every car that rolls off my Dyno can back up the power at the track with Power to Weight Math for MPH in the Quarter.
Third even if you can lay down big numbers on a Short Dyno Pull the car Wont carry the Power to the finish line and Won't run the numbers at the track, has to do with heat soak from overspinning the Tiny supercharger.
The only shot you have of making more than 250 whp consistantly with that little blower is Nitrous
If you think you make 266 go to the track and lay down some 106 mph runs.
My Cobalt has 240 wheel and goes 13.8 103-104 MPH
I built Cobalts for Customers that means they have to be Reliable under all conditions, What you do with your car is Your Business and Your Money.
We have 400 WHP cobalts rolling out the door.
If you going to call me a Liar you better bring bigger guns.
Ted.
and it has been proven that raising the rev limitor, with the stock pulley and and stock injectors, the injectors are close if not over the 100% duty cycle, which you should know that anything over 80% IDC is not very healthy for the injectors.
Both of these have been proven with real numbers, real data logs.
Not someone trying to sell a turbo kit
Thank you!!
Ryze? Lol didn't know you were on here! Yeah I can't really listen to this guy. I know a tuned stocker would show results, much more even out of 42# injectors and a tune! I may buy that 2.9 from you sooner or later(given it's available). Do I need to run any cooling mods w/o the pulley? Or do I need to run cooling mods with a pulley?
BTW I dyno'd 238 WHP @ 202 Tq..and two other stage 2's that day dyno'd a little over 240...they just had the GM canned tune..so I believe in custom tunes and bigger injectors, it only makes sense.
Cooling mods, or any supporting mods are always a good choice to do. There is a reason why I am going back to a 3.1 instead of my 2.9 pulley. I do have cooling mods, but heat still sucks
Cooling mods will only help..you should do it
I guess I need one of those READ CLOSE smileys. LOLHey guys...I got some 42.5# injectors last night, and installing and tuning my 06 SS/SC (stock) next week. I hear that these mods can walk stage 2 cars (no pulley just yet)
You guys are argueing over a few HP over 250, I said ABOUT.
I didn't say it would not show results, just don't expect it to kill a stage 2 kit especially without a pulley, which was your original question.
Cooling mods can only help you, Mine is done and it helps carry the power to the finish line.
Your friendly neiborhood Superman
Ted.
Last edited by JANNETTYRACING; 09-27-2008 at 12:05 PM.
Well, your arguments are reasonable man, and I didn't want a flame match. and I know about heat soak and power carrying. But for financial reasons and lack of certain tools, the tune and injectors is my way to go RIGHT NOW..but I will eventually pulley swap. I have a vid of me running a stage 2 balt on youtube, and it was extremely close until the middle of third gear, so that's why I am saying that a tune and more room for power(injectors) will even the odds especially at a higher redline!..know what I am saying? I am listening to ya tho bro, as I am everyone else too!
It all good my friend, keep it shinny side up good luck and have fun!
Thanks man, and appreciate the info!
I guess I need one of those READ CLOSE smileys. LOL
You guys are argueing over a few HP over 250, I said ABOUT.
I didn't say it would not show results, just don't expect it to kill a stage 2 kit especially without a pulley, which was your original question.
Cooling mods can only help you, Mine is done and it helps carry the power to the finish line.
Your friendly neiborhood Superman
Ted.am i wrong to say with the gm stage kits u get the most hp from the injectors (like 30 hp) not the pulley. so have fun with the injectors and i run a 3.1 pulley on my car.
NICK06
member of www.cny1320.com car club
ingalls TD,poly trans mounts,GM s2 injectors,3.1 ZZP Pulley and hub,ZZP 3" catless downpipe,custom catback w/magnaflow increased airflow muffler,pluged S/C silencer holes,HPtuners(std),Innovate lc-1 wideband
painted headlights,painted headliner black,painted rear pillar covers black,made triple pillar pod and painted both front pillar covers black
That's what I thought too..more fuel/more power...but then again more air more power...lol more fuel, more air, more power.
Do you have trouble with heat or heatsoak with that size pulley on the 42's?
The biggest gain comes from the pulley, but you must have the supporting fuel, so that is why they add injectors.
Injectors alone will do nothing.
A tune alone will give you a few ponies.
Injectors and a tune there is a little more to be had.
The blower is limited by it's size, it is a 240 hp blower you can squeeze more than that out of it but it starts getting real tough above 250.
Above 250 it uses almost as much power as it makes, meaning if you go smaller on the pulley for what should be 10 hp gain it might take 5 hp to turn it netting you 5 hp at the wheels.
A larger blower same boost will move more cooler air making more power
mmm TVS blower then haha. And I dont see how you think the blower has a hard time to get above 250whp. I know many 280whp LSJ's running low 13's in the 1/4. Low 13's would mean that you are very close to 300whp.
2010 Camaro SS LS3 - Heads, Cam, Whipple 11psi 756whp 663wtq 93 and meth
Inflated Dyno Numbers, Show Me the MPH then I will believe the Numbers.
Just because they can make it on the dyno doesn't mean they can make it on the track or real world driving.
My Cobalt has run a best of 13.5 @ 109mph w/ a 2.2 60ft on street tires. This was done with a 2.5" pulley, ported blower, head porting, header, full 3" exhaust, meth injection (24 degrees of timing) and so on. Black06G85 helped me start tuning my car when I first got it and was unfamiliar with the Cobalts. BTW hows it going man? I'm never on css anymore so I don't see ya anymore
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