Scaling Injectors 09 E38 ECM

[AlphaTuning]

what if data not available?

Buy better injectors.

[oharajo]

Double stoich, cut IFR in half ! ..............that means multiply by.5 !!

Thats it......nothing else to do.

All you have to do for the injectors you want to use is the above. There would be no reason to do it with stock injectors. It doesnt matter that they are not twice the stock ones. It works

Now I'm probably the only really slow one here, so it took me a bit to figure this out - but "cut IFR in half" means populate the flow rate table with values that are half the actual flow values for your new big injectors (NOT multiplying the existing stock value in the table by 0.5).

If your injectors are more than twice the 63 lb/min E38 limit (like say they are 150 lb/min), then you would have to TRIPLE the stoich and use 1/3 the actual flow values for your injectors. Just in case anyone slow like me stumbles across, and needs, Dstecks's bit of wisdom.

[realcanuk]

Now I'm probably the only really slow one here, so it took me a bit to figure this out - but "cut IFR in half" means populate the flow rate table with values that are half the actual flow values for your new big injectors (NOT multiplying the existing stock value in the table by 0.5).

If your injectors are more than twice the 63 lb/min E38 limit (like say they are 150 lb/min), then you would have to TRIPLE the stoich and use 1/3 the actual flow values for your injectors. Just in case anyone slow like me stumbles across, and needs, Dstecks's bit of wisdom.

Sorry for any confusion. I meant half of the IFR values of the new injectors.

[andrewzpsu]

For what its worth, multiplying the voltage and IAT tables works on the 2009+ CTS-V. I would assume it works on the ZL1 as well... and probably any of the new Camaro's that measure the fuel pressure.

To verify it is working, you can also log your calculated injector size. I'm running 100 lb injectors on my CTS-V and it shows up that way in the logs (depending on the fuel pressure).


I can verify that this DOES NOT work on LS2 GTO's... or probably any LS2 for that matter. In which case I've always used the Stoich method for scaling.

[DSteck]

For what its worth, multiplying the voltage and IAT tables works on the 2009+ CTS-V. I would assume it works on the ZL1 as well... and probably any of the new Camaro's that measure the fuel pressure.

To verify it is working, you can also log your calculated injector size. I'm running 100 lb injectors on my CTS-V and it shows up that way in the logs (depending on the fuel pressure).


I can verify that this DOES NOT work on LS2 GTO's... or probably any LS2 for that matter. In which case I've always used the Stoich method for scaling.

Lol. Maybe you didn't notice, but the limit is 127lb/hr on newer stuff. That's why it works.

[383]

Ok I see how this works but in my tune from the shop it seems they scaled the IFR 35% but left Stoich 14.678@0% alcohol. Does this mean the MAF is skewed 35% lean?
The tune also had a flat 48.7 from 58psi down then from 59.6psi was 52.5 all the way up. Is this what you mean by flat lining the IFR?
If I do the X.5 ifr. and X2sto. do I double all the breakpoints to 100% alcohol? 100 = 17.95606 0=29.35644 or do I just do the 0% point? Im thinking I do a X2 for the entire Stoich table.
Thanks
Chris

[RWTD]

Ok I see how this works but in my tune from the shop it seems they scaled the IFR 35% but left Stoich 14.678@0% alcohol. Does this mean the MAF is skewed 35% lean?
The tune also had a flat 48.7 from 58psi down then from 59.6psi was 52.5 all the way up. Is this what you mean by flat lining the IFR?
If I do the X.5 ifr. and X2sto. do I double all the breakpoints to 100% alcohol? 100 = 17.95606 0=29.35644 or do I just do the 0% point? Im thinking I do a X2 for the entire Stoich table.
Thanks
Chris

Chris, unfortunately, that shop "tooned" your car, not tuned it. You should just start over from scratch.

Sad that there are still TOONers screwing folks by giving them shit for tunes and taking their hard-earned money.

[383]

I doubled stoich and 1/2ed IFR (input all of Greg B data)and when I flashed it the car barely ran and the WB pegged to 16 and o2's wre 23~24%
What do I do to get started closer to L=1 so I can work safely? Should I X1.35 to the entire MAF table?
This is why Im learning all this now. Nobody will ever tune your car as good as you.

[383]

tune/log /con

[MStefak]

You need to find a stock tune and start over and do the double / half method. And see where that goes

[383]

I just found a tune from an e-force(Thanks Jody) with different inj but it gives me a good idea how far off my MAF#'s are. Im going to compare that one and try to work from it.
What is the benefit to doing the double, 1/2 IFR vs scaling 35% and tuning the MAF with a 14.2 stoich?
The 35%IFR/ MAF way keeps the DIC MPG readings correct, right? Wont this way help keep the MAF from pegging up top?

[realcanuk]

I just found a tune from an e-force(Thanks Jody) with different inj but it gives me a good idea how far off my MAF#'s are. Im going to compare that one and try to work from it.
What is the benefit to doing the double, 1/2 IFR vs scaling 35% and tuning the MAF with a 14.2 stoich?
The 35%IFR/ MAF way keeps the DIC MPG readings correct, right? Wont this way help keep the MAF from pegging up top?

Scaling is probably better (ive never done it), but you need to scale everything properly, not just the ifr and maf. A search will bring up threads about it. You can adjust the DIC with the instrument cluster outputs, located right below the AFR stoich table.

[383]

The Greg B DVD #2 had exactly what I needed to learn to scale in it. Those DVD's should be a requirement before buying HPT

[[email protected]]

I'm using it in my Z06 with the custom OS for the increased airflow limit.

It won't work on an E40 PCM if you move more than 67.7 lb/min of air.

With the 12200 maf limitI had to half scale everything and go speed density. E40 is a pita

[eficalibrator]

The Greg B DVD #2 had exactly what I needed to learn to scale in it. Those DVD's should be a requirement before buying HPT

That video (along with all the others) is available on the streaming site (in my sig) now too, so you don't have to wait for the physical disc to arrive.

[8aHemi]

So just to clarify, you guys are saying that on a e38 with a 63lb/hr limit, the voltage and IAT tables wont bring it over the 63lb/hr cap? Only stoich table, which maxes out at 30? In that case the maximum size injector that ecu can handle is 127lb/hr correct? (Double stoich takes you to pretty much the limit) Im about to re do my entire fuel system pump all the way to injectors and was looking at FIC 1440ci injectors, but if I cant scale them Ill have to go to 127s.

[07GTS]

stoich will go to 32 afr for a slightly over double, im using 1500cc @ 40psi and stoich at a multiplier that gave me 31.999 with the rest at same multiplier as im flex fuel, the rest will just be scaled in the airflow tables, u can try the volts table sometimes it works and sometimes it dosnt, ive found out it does nothing on my e38

[8aHemi]

stoich will go to 32 afr for a slightly over double, im using 1500cc @ 40psi and stoich at a multiplier that gave me 31.999 with the rest at same multiplier as im flex fuel, the rest will just be scaled in the airflow tables, u can try the volts table sometimes it works and sometimes it dosnt, ive found out it does nothing on my e38

Yeah im thinking of going with FIC 1440s, at 3 bar they are barely just under the limitations of 32 stoich. Did you have to change the rail pressure min and max id assume to 3 bar? From what ive read it assumes 4 bar at all times. Will lowering my fuel pressure down to 3 bar cause any issues?

[07GTS]

if u dont have FPCM just leave the min/max, if u dont have FPCM it will assume 4bar all the time, if u lower it down to 3 bar u will just have to shift the injector data over so the 300kpa data is in the 400kpa row and same with the whole table, then same with the offset/volts/press table, then u should be right, if ur using a manifold referenced fuel pressure then u have to set it up differently again to suit that, u will be fine at 3 bar just as it affects the injector control u just have to set the data to suit and ur good

[8aHemi]

if u dont have FPCM just leave the min/max, if u dont have FPCM it will assume 4bar all the time, if u lower it down to 3 bar u will just have to shift the injector data over so the 300kpa data is in the 400kpa row and same with the whole table, then same with the offset/volts/press table, then u should be right, if ur using a manifold referenced fuel pressure then u have to set it up differently again to suit that, u will be fine at 3 bar just as it affects the injector control u just have to set the data to suit and ur good

Copy that, Im currently making the switch to a return system, with a vacuum referanced regulator, so I should just be good pasting the data from the 300kpa across the board on flow rate, and 300kpa from data on the volts/press table on the x axis if Ive read correctly