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Thread: Speed Density on the BA/BF Australian Ford Turbo 6

  1. #21
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    There is an accelerator pump table..... But its not called that

    Tony ill help you out without giving u the answer because your a smart cookie

    We use a calculation for transient fueling ,correct, its based off manifold volume correct ?

    How does the ecu know what space/area/volume its working with ?

    We need to tell it , correct ?

    If we manipulate this input will it have a desired effect to what your asking ?
    Last edited by JETURBO; 12-08-2014 at 02:59 AM.
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  2. #22
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    Thanks Jet,
    I will give it a manipulation in the next coupla days.

    Regards

  3. #23
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    What brand AFR gauge are you using to see the quick lean out with ?

    If its an innovate dont stress to much because they are way to sensitive imho against more expensive items, seeing a very slight lean out like your saying is a common characteristics of the way the system works and to nil effect ( unless it's caughing/ missing ) at that point .... Spending time watching the afr's after we did a nizpro plennum on a BF turbo this is something we could only get as good as stock but not better like your suggesting your trying to remove, this being said it did not show up on more expensive afr systems vs innovate

    To say we got it 100% correct is probably not true as anything has room for improvement but we had a car that was in our honest opinion very very good with zero effects worthy of more time spent ( does this mean its good enough ? )

    Yes its great to get to the finer points of a tune/calibration but i feel it may be in vein as i said i belive it to be a characteristic of the design, a "direct purposeful tip in" may or may not of rectifie it anyway as air will still rush faster initially than fuel and may just end up with a rich spot after a lean spot

    Food for thought maybe ?
    Last edited by JETURBO; 12-08-2014 at 05:20 PM.
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  4. #24
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    Jet,
    All good feedback and I have seen the same thing with my AEM wideband. It is interesting that the gauge does not show this (it seems to dampen the response) but shows up with the analog line. I have just had a bung installed before the cat to do some testing around injector calibration and will see if the same thing happens before the cat.

    Is it possible to tune in this area via the Engine -> Idle ->Airflow -> "Idle Dashpot Preposition" functions as well?

  5. #25
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    Iirc idle dashpot is the "steadyness" at return to idle so return from rpm vs initiate rpm
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  6. #26
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    Jet,
    I will trust your judgement. I was thinking that this definition:

    "[ECM] 32988 - Idle Dashpot Preposition vs. RPM: This is the airflow added to the ISC when the vehicle is moving in relation to RPM."

    sounded a bit like it was adding air and meant it could be adding fuel as well but I did not think of it doing this on the way down as well

  7. #27
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    I use an innovate. Its a definate lean hesitation. Only very minor but there. I would think that once you do a passenger side battery relocation/drivers side intake that it might mess up fueling requirements a little in this area.

  8. #28
    Advanced Tuner JETURBO's Avatar
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    Daz some tuners that have trouble scaling injectors and then in turn end up with stalling issues ( return to idle from drive conditions ) go and hack the dashpot to pieces trying to stop the car from stalling but usually with sub par results further

    If you have a play and have results please share as ive never needed to "tweak" the dashpot

    Tony have you changed your plenum/inlet/cold hot side piping to warrant a "big Bump" in afr's ? How lean is your innovate going when this happens ~16 or higher ?
    FG F6 400+RWKW .....10.9 @ 132mph.... FIRST 10sec F6 in SA ( sold )
    DYNO DYNAMICS 1200hp ...... Tuning weapon..... ( sold )
    OFFICIAL JONNY TIG INDUSTRIES SUPPLIER ..... Biggest and lightest intercoolers for B and F falcons
    SUBARU BRZ ......AVO TURBO KIT coming......soon
    VF R8 CLUBSPORT SV...... 340FWKW.....ASE BIG SINGLE KIT .....one day

  9. #29
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    I have need to tweak the dash pot before particularly when mods are made to the rotating mass of the engine (ie rods/pistons different clutch's/flexplates) unlikely you should need to on a stock motor though.
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  10. #30
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    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    Does anyone know how accelerator pump enrichment is done. Does SCT have anything that does it. I would like to enrichen fuel on Tip In (if that makes sense) Basically when you jab the accelerator from idle. I notice that with the way I have tuned my injectors it jumps to 17+:1 FOR A MOMENt on sudden take off and that there can be a slight hesitation. However it could easily be rectified if there was an accelerator pump table.
    whats your o/l delay and blend ramp set to?
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  12. #32
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    Jet, I have a Nizpro cooler in the FG.
    Remember, I am still playing with these Nizpro injectors (just as a tuning exercise), so the I am largly pi--ing in the dark. With the scalings I am using the car drives and trims nicely. Its just this lean spot. However I do remember with other injectors in that it still went leaner than I would like in that spot, so if I can fudge it out then the car will be fine.

    Luke, still using stock O/L delay of 0.7 amd OL Delay blend of 0.03. But I think you are on to something.

  13. #33
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    Reduce your ol delay/blend before chasing plenum volumes etc,also force open loop and see if it still does it.
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  14. #34
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    I reduced the O/L delay and blend both to Zero. Definately did something for the positive in both drivability and tip-in somewhat. Need to wait for warmer weather to see how much. Do you know what is going on there Luke?

    Jet, also did the plenum volume adjustment. Went to extremes, i.e from 0.25 to 15. (set at 7.25). Is this what you were talking about. I couldn't really work out any difference from those two figures I used. Do you go higher or lower to richen tip-in?

  15. #35
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    Tony, Jet, I was thinking that the "future" fuelling events were governed by the "Load with failed MAF" table and I would have corrected this table to fix Tony's issue. Am I on the wrong track?

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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by turbotrana View Post
    I reduced the O/L delay and blend both to Zero. Definately did something for the positive in both drivability and tip-in somewhat. Need to wait for warmer weather to see how much. Do you know what is going on there Luke?

    Jet, also did the plenum volume adjustment. Went to extremes, i.e from 0.25 to 15. (set at 7.25). Is this what you were talking about. I couldn't really work out any difference from those two figures I used. Do you go higher or lower to richen tip-in?
    Reducing the delay and blend will allow transient fuelling to keep pace with the increased airspeed from higher boost pressure. I still think your issue is scaling related so IMHO you need to force open loop with stock ol delay/ramp and dial as much out as you can.

    Don't touch the plenum volume if you haven't changed the physical volume. On a B series Nizpro alter the plenum to correct a rich condition that occurs on tip in with their larger volume plenum.
    04 Velocity MKII M6 & 06 BF F6 555 ZF6

  18. #38
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    Good info gents,

    Does anyone recall the plenum volume listed in FG xr turbo? Wondering if I should change my BF now I've done the FG manifold conversion.
    Luke, also swing me a message mate, I might have an excess of ZF stuff you might be interested in getting cheap.

  19. #39
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    Its 7.25 L.

  20. #40
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    BA/BF/FG are all 7.25L. Was originally going to copy the FG Speed density tables in as well, then I was told they have a different cam and got the LTFTs good with better injector data.
    Last edited by DarrylC; 12-11-2014 at 06:36 PM.