Also can some one tell me what exactly I need to scale for running the 3 bar map/baro sensor? I.e. the different tables... I adjusted the logger already and it does measure boost correctly as can be seen from a earlier log from a previous tune. I attached the log to show it.
1st. I would go to Engine>Airflow>Electronic Throttle>Desired Airflow>Startup and add 50% more to the whole column
2nd. Your timing is still too low. If you notice in the log timing is going negative and rpms drop with it. Not sure why the timing is taking a dive like that but it's definitely causing a problem. Put the part throttle base timing at 5* in the low load low rpm cells where you now have it at negative timing. Under Minimum spark try putting it at 0* in those cells.
3rd. It appears your cranking on it for an extended period before it starts so it's hard to tell without seeing your WB but maybe your hot restart fuel is off
and maybe a bit rich as it appears your pedaling it. I'll keep looking
Under Engine>Idle>Airflow>Enable RPM error should be 320 rpm not 1312 rpm. That may be a lot of your issue right there
I would change your P/N rpm limits down to 2800. There's no reason to free rev an engine to 4200
my AFR on my wide band is set to 11.5 and is at that range during start up. The time that you saw on the log before was when I was waiting for my wide band to countdown for heating up the sensor.
try turning sensed map off. I know a lot of guys like it but it's never worked for me personally. Your map sensor settings look fine for a 3 bar.
It's driving me crazy not being able to see bank 2 or the long term fuel trims. Also I can't find delta throttle. I'm trying to adjust
Last edited by GFB Performance; 10-12-2016 at 04:05 PM.
sorry for the mix up on the logs. I just made the changes you mentioned and it idled good and dipped as I put it into gear and reverse but went into limp mode when I put it back into P/N.
As I stated I'm still new with HPT so I have to fumble around to find certain things. My ? for you is are you using the latest update? Can you turn a lot of the channels your scanning off such as injector PW for each injector and keep just 1, any unnecessary stuff and start scanning both banks STFT's and LTFT's? We need to narrow down the number of pid's that are relevant. The O2 voltage is bugging me because it's not right but it could be the wrong channel scanning so you really need to see whats up or we'll be doing this forever (or at least you will lol)
Are you getting any codes after limp?
Last edited by GFB Performance; 10-12-2016 at 07:51 PM.
I am using the latest version of the software. I had those channels in because I was tuning the injectors. I switched them off so you can see the other channels you mentioned. I started the car again with the same tune to get a new log and it didn't start well and went into limp mode after revving to around 1500rpm. can you look at the airflow tables in the engine diag>airflow (airflow max RPM, airflow max TPS) and see if those are correct please? The o2's seem to be working...just showing at a higher voltage now than originally and I put in new sensors which are exactly the same manufacture and part. LTFT isnt showing because the car hasnt been running long enough yet.
Go to your ENGINE>IDLE>AIRFLOW>IDLE TORQUE THROTTLE>Proportional P/N and multiply the entire table by 0.5
All your idle rpm values are no good, you cant command a low idle right at startup, make all four of your ENGINE>IDLE>RPM>Base Idle RPM tables be the following values:
Move over to your Idle RPM Limits, set your Min Drive and Min P/N to the following (idea is to set it about 50-75rpms below your base idle so that "oh shit too low open the throttle!" moment doesn't happen too soon):
You still have torque monitoring enabled, which is a fancy way to say that the PCM is doing an actual torque versus commanded torque calculation and making adjustments to the throttle and timing very aggressively to get the torque where it thinks it should be. Problem here is you don't have a way to fix the torque model of your new 426ci + Blower + cam. You have bits and pieces, but most will agree its easier to just kill this torque management process, especially at idle.
ENGINE>DIAGNOSTICS>GENERAL>TORQUE CORRELATION> Torque Delta and Torque Delta Fault, max both these tables out, I input 1500 and just forget about it.
Lastly as mentioned before, need to lower your PT Spark table still some more, you have a CLIFF sitting right at 1,070rpm column, you dip to 900 rpms and your timing goes from 25 to 17 at idle. Make the 788 13 degrees all the way down and 1070 column also be 14, then highlight the entire 1070 after doing that, highlight over 4 more columns and click the left "smooth selection" button.
Also until you can really get this thing to settle down and run smooth, go to your ENGINE>SPARK>ADVANCE> IAT SPARK> Hot and Cold Spark tables, just zero these out for now. In time you can rescale these to be used for WOT timing adjustments, but in stock form they will tease your idle timing and make it unstable, especially with that KB which runs in the Hot IAT range most of the time with IATs above 150*.
Same area zero out the last two rows of your Baro Spark table, which is where you will spend most of your time based on the baro readings in your log. Literally if you start the car one time and the baro reading is 14.3 because there is storm coming, itll command 2 degrees less timing at idle which is plenty enough to induce surging if youre on the cusp of a shitty tune.
Man I just looked at your VE table, looks totally raped, guessing as a result of your injector scaling being so far off. I have only once been able to build my own injector rescale through logging but it isn't for the novice tuner, so at this point I strongly recommend researching online for these injectors and getting better data, setting your VE back to stock and immediately taking 20% out of the idle area, smooth it afterwards, and start over.
Also really need a better log, please add Total Airflow, Fuel Mass, all your fuel trims (long and short term), Desired Idle RPM, and you need to get a AFR gauge in into your logging. If you cant, can work around it but itll take 5 days and 15 hours straight of tuning versus 1 day and a few hours. You don't need to remove any channels you currently have, you have plenty of "space" left to add.
Last edited by 06300CSRT8; 10-13-2016 at 07:20 AM.
@ahmed your car has absolutely ran long enough for long terms to come in so your not scanning them or something else is going on
@06300srt I like learning some new stuff. I saw a lot of those things you said to change but there's a few I've never tried especially the TQ management at idle. I have a big cam and a big blower that's putting a lot of additional load at idle so I'm going t try that with my car.
With Diablo logging the more pids you monitor the slower the refresh rate so I always keep it to a minimum but apparently HPT doesn't have that issue or at least it's not as bad. Totally agree on the injector scaling being whacked out and that's one reason I won't use anything but Injector Dynamics. Thinking he'd be better of putting injector offset voltage back to stock. Something is off with the limp mode problem as I've tuned more cars than I can remember and I can't think of any that behaved that way except my car when I tried to run in OL all the time. That was a few years back so my memory is foggy about exactly what was happening but it was not a happy camper.
If you made a graph with average pulsewidth as rows, use the values in your tune in the injector table, and recorded true AFR Error (real wideband versus commanded AFR), you could rebuild your injector scale from scratch. But this also relies on a somewhat accurate VE table.
DW does actually disclose all their flow rates but only in Ford version. They do provide high and low slopes, along with pulsewidth minimums, and breakpoints. So technically you COULD try to calculate at each pulsewidth the estimated fuel mass. Maybe I will take a stab later on.
Last edited by 06300CSRT8; 10-13-2016 at 11:12 AM.
I want to that the both of you guys for all of your help. He is running good and I drove him around the block for about 10 minutes with no issues besides my shift points which I will adjust later. But I couldn't have done it without you guys. I know how to scale these injectors from Deatschwerks from the info that they gave me. The trouble was in the ve table I had the units set to [numbers ()] instead of [percent %] and I changed it and started making adjustments to the ve table comparing it to the data log. I have attached the tune I have adjusted and the log. I dont have a wide band that has a preset in the logger. So I have been comparing my actual WB to the loggers fuel trim and it is correct. As I drove it around it wasnt too lean nor too rich. If you guys see anything in this tune and log that I should modifiy please let me know. And sorry for the bother....I'm like a baby at this when it comes to dodges.
Your welcome but you've still got a lot of work to do. Your fuel trims between banks is massive in certain areas, as much as 25% difference. Your idling much higher than desired idle so you need to work that out. When you make airflow changes make small adjustments like .3 grams per second or so. Get your VE smoothed out and post up your tune and log
for now leave bank 2 disabled and make adjustments to both, once you get both with 10-15% then you can move to tune individually.
Match the airflow from the throttle body airflow table you have to both the large and small range desired throttle tables. You can click on the left side where it says "Airflow (lb/hr)" make sure your units are the same when copying over. The rows line up perfectly, just copy from the top of the throttle body table down. See if that brings your idle down a bit.
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