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Thread: FSCM (FPCM) Tables/Settings - 2010 Camaro LS3 vs ZL1

  1. #1
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    FSCM (FPCM) Tables/Settings - 2010 Camaro LS3 vs ZL1

    I never thought this day would come, thanks to HPT they added support for Fuel Pump Control Module... now time for questions.

    FIRST OFF: YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO READ YOUR CURRENT (or edited/flashed) FPCM FILE. HPTUNERS software will supply a stock file for you to edit and incorporate into your original HPT Tune. You make edits to this tune, and flash this to your FPCM.

    I wanted to get dual pumps and run it with the ZL1 controller which is the same as a SS controller but a different OS on it.. SS fuel pump itslef limits fuel pressure at 58psi (via built in regulator) but the FPCM is programmed to start reducing fuel pressure below 58psi at a around 160lb/hr Fuel Flow as told to do by the settings in the Max Desired Pressure table in the FPCM - log "Desired Fuel Pressure" to see what pressure the FPCM is trying to achieve. With a MSD BAP, The SS Pump does not appear to be weak, it is actually holding exactly the same PSI that the "Desired Fuel Pressure" is asking for. The Desired Fuel Pressure is set in the "Maximum Desired Pressure" table in the FPCM! Stock, the SS FPCM is slowing down the pump starting around 160lb/min according to the "Instantaneous Fuel Flow Estimate" PID. ZL1 asks to hold 450 kpa (68psi ish) the entire time.

    So for scanner you need to add these (from the FPCM section) if you dont have them already:
    1) Fuel Pressure
    2) Instantaneous Fuel Flow Estimate (lb/hr) - this is the flow data that shows in the top row of MAX PRESSURE table in FPCM
    3) Fuel Pump Commanded DC
    4) Desired Fuel Pressure - this should also match the data in the MAX PRESSURE table accoring to what ever Fuel Flow your at
    5) Fuel Pressure
    6) Fuel Pump Trim Short Term
    7) Fuel Pump Trim Long Term

    What you should see is your Desired Fuel Pressure should always match your Fuel Pressure. Desired fuel pressure is what the FPCM is trying to supply by modulating the Fuel Pump via PWM. I thought I had weak pump and losing fuel pressure but I'm not.. my stock FPCM MAX PRESSURE table reduces pressure as FLOW RATE increases, for whatever reason. Maybe to save the pump. My Boost A Pump is adding voltage to allow it to have more power/rated flow, but the FPCM is still modulating it, at least in the non-boost areas. I need to read up on my MSD BAP and see exactly how it works.. does it just increase voltage or is it also modifying the PWM signal (increasing Duty Cycle)... hopefully not.


    To make changes (increase pressure or tell the pump to generate more flow):
    Max Desired Pressure: In my stock file the generated logged fuel PSI matches this table 100%. If I want more pressure for given flow, just up this table across the board (tested up to 100kpa 58psi - same as my fuel regulator... beyond this is wasted energy). Lowering values in this table generates lower running and logged Fuel Pressure. I had it as low as 16psi running fine. Maybe I could go lower. Changing just the first few cells to low numbers created a situation where idle was at 20psi and anything higher than that was normal 58psi.

    To fix my loss of fuel pressure above about 3500rpms (160lb/hr fuel flow on my setup) I simply changed my decreasing "Maximum Desired Pressure" table to all 400kpa (58psi) and it holds 58 psi now! I only ran it to 5000 RPM but it used to start dropping at 3500 RPM stock settings, now rock solid 58 psi past 5000rpm. Haven't taken it all the way up yet. I'll probably blow my pump out that's fine


    -----Parameter Descriptions-----

    Engine:
    Max Engine Boost (current populated with all 0's)

    Injectors: (These seem to match my stock 2010 Camaro LS3 settings, my ECU tune still shows my Whipple settings). Description for these say they are duplicates of the ECU with same name, but they are not really since they are the old stock values.
    Flow Rate vs Press: Obvious... but is there any need to change these. They dont appear to be linked to anything in the ECU.
    Min INjector Pulse: Obvious... but is there any need to change these? They dont appear to be linked to anything in the ECU.


    Pressure:
    Min Desired Pressure: Min is 45psi. Not 100% sure what this does other than set the minimum possible fuel pressure.
    Max Desired Pressure: It's an Estimated Fuel flow table.. in scanner you need to log "Instantaneous Fuel Flow Estimate". In my stock file the generated logged fuel PSI matches this table 100%. If I want more pressure for given flow, just up this table across the board (need to test this). Lowering values in this table generates lower running and logged Fuel Pressure. I had it as low as 16psi running fine. Maybe I could go lower. Changing just the first few cells to low numbers created a situation where idle was at 20psi and anythnig higher than that was normal 58psi.
    Regulation Pressure: This flow vs batt voltage table is all set to 65psi (450kpa).

    Fuel Pump: I assume this has to do with dialing in the PWM power to the fuel pump.. if I have two pumps installed then maybe I want to tweak "Openloop DC and Min DC", by lowering the numbers by roughly 25%?
    Openloop DC:
    Openloop DC Mult:
    Min DC:


    2010 Camaro LS3 Stock FSCM 1.PNG

    2010 Camaro LS3 Stock FSCM 2.PNG



    EDIT:

    I am seeing increasing FP beyond 58psi with the stock pump and MSD Boost A Pump with 10psi boost, using 58psi (400kpa) in Max Pressure table. I should probably reduce this table to 380kpa to stay below the pump regulator of 58psi:


    Stock FPCM Settings with MSD BAP:
    rpm------Fuel psi/desired-------Inj DC-------Pump DC
    5000-----48/50-------------------60----------81.6
    6000-----46/48-------------------73----------91.4


    400kpa Fuel Pressure flat across with MSD BAP
    5000-----57/58-------------------54----------85.9
    6000-----61/58-------------------60----------95.0


    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    EDIT 8-21-2017: Added some E85 and ended up with 40% according to the sensor..
    The max % Ethanol you can run with stock LS3 Whipple Injectors with MSD BAP and stock pump, stock exhaust and cam appears to be 40%.

    Fuel pressure started at 53-54psi (commanded 55psi) near 6000rpm and dropped to 42psi by 6500rpm. Once the FPDC hit 100%, fuel pressure started dropping so that's a nice correlation. Still, AFR was solid and on target.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 08-21-2017 at 06:20 PM.

  2. #2
    HPT Employee Engineer@HPT's Avatar
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    Here is a ZL1 FPCM only read.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer@HPT View Post
    Here is a ZL1 FPCM only read.
    your pretty awesome. Thanks

    Since your here, do you think there are any other "hidden" tables or are these pretty simple and this is it?
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

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    HPT Employee Engineer@HPT's Avatar
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    In response to your injector question, there is a copy of the ECM injector flow rate that is stored in the FPCM. While you changed the ECM copy, the FPCM copy is still stock.
    There are other oddball parameters but the important fuel related stuff was added. Others relate to diagnostics, AFM, exhaust valve shutoff, etc.
    Last edited by Engineer@HPT; 03-27-2017 at 04:08 PM.

  5. #5
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    A) You can't write entire a FPCM with HPT.
    B) You can't write a ZL1 operating system into a 2010 SS piece of hardware. Not even TIS allows it.
    C) You will have to address the internal mechanical regulator.

    It's easier to switch to a V pump assembly and FPCM.

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  6. #6
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    A) You can't write entire a FPCM with HPT.
    B) You can't write a ZL1 operating system into a 2010 SS piece of hardware. Not even TIS allows it.
    C) You will have to address the internal mechanical regulator.

    It's easier to switch to a V pump assembly and FPCM.
    I was wondering about the internal regulator... that thing is annoying.

    What about the Livernois Dual Pump Assy? I know the ADM FPCM is just a ZL1 FPCM

    I thought the Tech 2 (or dealer) could flash a SS FPCM if you used a ZL1 VIN.

    If the ZL1 settings makes the SS FPCM act like a ZL1 FPCM, then close enough.

    I will probably never want to get over 800whp, was thinking the Livernois Dual Pump and ZL1 FPCM was good enough. I have a MSD BAP but would not want to use it since it messes with the radio (interference).
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  7. #7
    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    TIS only allows flashing the OS if you have the right hardware to receive it. Sometimes it will accidentally allow it.

    I can tell you from experience that trying to flash a 13 ZL1 file into a 10 SS FPCM will brick it.

    DSX Tuning - Authorized HP Tuners Dealer
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  8. #8
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DSteck View Post
    TIS only allows flashing the OS if you have the right hardware to receive it. Sometimes it will accidentally allow it.

    I can tell you from experience that trying to flash a 13 ZL1 file into a 10 SS FPCM will brick it.
    makes sense, that would suck.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  9. #9
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Well I can make my car run at 16psi fuel pressure, so it is working. Just hope I can get above 58psi under boost one day now. Thanks HPT!

    And it looks like you can make it idle with low Fuel Pressure, so then you can get a little more resolution out of giant injectors by doing this?

    And you can flash just the FPCM in under 10 seconds so that is nice.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 03-27-2017 at 07:42 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Engineer@HPT View Post
    In response to your injector question, there is a copy of the ECM injector flow rate that is stored in the FPCM. While you changed the ECM copy, the FPCM copy is still stock.
    There are other oddball parameters but the important fuel related stuff was added. Others relate to diagnostics, AFM, exhaust valve shutoff, etc.
    Do you have any ideal why they would include the injector flow data in the FPCM? Can you tell if it's being used at all? Wondering if I should update it with what is in my ECM.

    UPDATE: The FPCM Injector Flow Rate tables max out at 63lb/hr, so guess I cant update them.
    Last edited by 10_SS; 03-27-2017 at 08:05 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  11. #11
    HPT Employee Engineer@HPT's Avatar
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    We've split the FSCM types in different categories because they all are architecturally different and they cannot be flashed over with the OS of another type.

  12. #12
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    any way to post a CTS-V FSCM file? Or some shots of the "Max Desired Pressure" table... wondering if that table or the one next to it (Regulation Pressure) is the only reason the ZL1 FPCM wont go above 450kpa. All of those tables max out at 450kpa on the ZL1 file. MY Camaro file has them falling lower from the get go. Wonder if that is the only real difference.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

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    I just updated from 3.4.77 to 3.4.85 but I still don't see any of these tables. And if I try to open the read_ZL1.hpt file you posted it crashes the program. What am I doing wrong? Are you guys using a beta version?
    Bryan

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    Quote Originally Posted by 10_SS View Post
    any way to post a CTS-V FSCM file? Or some shots of the "Max Desired Pressure" table... wondering if that table or the one next to it (Regulation Pressure) is the only reason the ZL1 FPCM wont go above 450kpa. All of those tables max out at 450kpa on the ZL1 file. MY Camaro file has them falling lower from the get go. Wonder if that is the only real difference.
    I have an 09 CTSV module programmed that I'm going to install tomorrow in my Silverado. I'll get a read and post it if someone don't beat me to it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZO6_Bryan View Post
    I just updated from 3.4.77 to 3.4.85 but I still don't see any of these tables. And if I try to open the read_ZL1.hpt file you posted it crashes the program. What am I doing wrong? Are you guys using a beta version?
    Yes, Beta
    1961 C-10 5.3 NV3500

    2007 NNBS ECSB 4.8

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    This makes total sense from what I have observed ever since putting ID850 injectors in my ZL1. I have watched the fuel pressure run high at 65 psi after a reset/re-flash of the PCM. And the AFR will be pig rich for the first 5 min or so. because the FPCM still thinks they are stock injectors. Then the FPCM learns the proper duty cycle to obtain the commanded pressure. If we put the injector data in the FPCM then it won't have so much learning to do. Open loop/closed loop operation just like fuel trims using the fuel pressure sensor for feedback then pump duty cycle to get to the commanded fuel pressure.
    Bryan

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    Senior Tuner DSteck's Avatar
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    The FPCM's injector flow rate settings have nothing to do with it running rich after a reflash. It's an injector offset. Pressure is sky high because it's in hot fuel mode.

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  18. #18
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mcfarlnd View Post
    I have an 09 CTSV module programmed that I'm going to install tomorrow in my Silverado. I'll get a read and post it if someone don't beat me to it.
    That would be awesome.. Actually you cant really read it, it will supply you with a stock file for the VIN... not sure what you will get and it may be attached to your ECU file.

    So I never looked at Desired Fuel Pressure before, but apparently it falls at the same rate as my fuel pressure falls at WOT.. so I looked in the FPCM and sure enough, it's being told to fall as Flow Rate increases.

    I wonder if they did this as a way to extend the pump life? No wonder the stock SS fuel system is so bad with boost.

    I only ran this up to 4500rpm but the FPCM table Max Desired Pressure shows a continuous downward slope for fuel pressure as flow rate increases. The data here is all logged data (logged desired psi and logged fuel PSI). I added the green 58psi regulator psi as reference.

    Graph Attached.

    I'm wondering if the only difference between FPCM's is this Max Desired Pressure table
    2010 SS is set to decrease PSI as Fuel Flow Rate increases (why I dont know)
    2012 ZL1 is set to hold steady 450kpa psi all the way across the Flow Rate table...
    CTS-V: Maybe this increases kpa/psi as Fuel Flow Rate increases? This is what you would want with boost.

    Now that we have access to this table, we could probably fairly easily build a fuel pump drive unit that simply listens to the PWM output of the stock FPCM and outputs the same PWM but using big power transistors/SSR's.. not one that increases voltage, but one that increases amp capacity incase the stock FPCM's cant hold up. Seems like the CTS-V FPCM is pretty strong though.

    Now that I think about it.. I have an MSD BAP, and it may be acting like the power amp for the fuel pumps and no fuel pump load may be on my FPCM... I wonder if I disconnect the vacuum line to it if it still handles all the amp draw. Hmmm... might be time to attach some current transformers to the FP wires and send to the Analog Inputs of the MPVI. Fun times ahead.

    Now Im also wondering if I could just run this Aeromotive A1000 dead heading, PWM, no return.

    FPCM Settings vs actual Fuel Pressure.PNG

    Low fuel pressure at all Fuel Flows
    137b 16psi fuel pressure around idle,.hpl

    Low Fuel Pressure only at Idle Test
    137e low idle fuel pressure.hpl
    Last edited by 10_SS; 03-28-2017 at 09:00 AM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  19. #19
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZO6_Bryan View Post
    This makes total sense from what I have observed ever since putting ID850 injectors in my ZL1. I have watched the fuel pressure run high at 65 psi after a reset/re-flash of the PCM. And the AFR will be pig rich for the first 5 min or so. because the FPCM still thinks they are stock injectors. Then the FPCM learns the proper duty cycle to obtain the commanded pressure. If we put the injector data in the FPCM then it won't have so much learning to do. Open loop/closed loop operation just like fuel trims using the fuel pressure sensor for feedback then pump duty cycle to get to the commanded fuel pressure.
    Can anyone explain how the pump runs higher than 58psi, i thought they all have a in tank regulator that limits it to 58psi. Maybe some are 68psi? Or do some pumps exceed the flow rate of the regulator and it increases psi because of this?
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires

  20. #20
    Senior Tuner 10_SS's Avatar
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    Ok confirmed the FPCM is telling the pump to slow down all the way, the pump may just be able to keep up. Maybe I run the risk of burning the pump out. I will flat line the Max Pressure table to match the ZL1 and see what happens.

    The thing I dont know is what the stock FPCM table looks like since I did intially program this with the Whipple programmer.. maybe this table was changed by Whipple.

    CORRECTION: HPTuners downloads or somehow obtains a STOCK FPCM file for you to edit when you attempt to read the FPCM. So there is no way to know what settings you have in your FPCM unless you WRITE to it then look at the file you wrote. No way to read.

    FPCM Settings vs actual Fuel Pressure.PNG
    Last edited by 10_SS; 03-28-2017 at 03:16 PM.
    2010 Camaro LS3 (E38 ECU)
    Whipple 2.9L, 3.875" Pulley, kit injectors, supplied MSD Boost-A-Pump, stock pump
    LG Motorsports 1 7/8" Headers - No Cats, stock mid pipe with JBA Axle Back
    ZL1 Wheels/Tires