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Thread: Not shifting fast enough?

  1. #1
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Not shifting fast enough?

    2013 Dodge Challenger RT - A5
    Heads, cam, long tubes, catless mids, 3" exhaust, Whipple
    A5 trans, 3000 stall converter, 3.92 gears

    I've never had an issue with shifting but I've been tuning by doing 3rd gear pulls. I finally got to where I have been running it out to the shift points at 6300 and it is not shifting well. I believe the car used to do this in 1st gear at the track where it felt as though it's flying up in RPMs so quickly that the car cannot shift fast enough? I am not sure.

    I have all the torque management turned on in the trans and the only thing not set to stock in the TCM are the shift points and the TCM RPM limit. WOT shift is set to 6300 and the TCM RPM limit is set to 800 with the limp offset at 500 rpms.

    I do have some torque management settings turned off under the PCM. I am going to turn the auto trans torque adapts back on to see if that helps but does anyone have any ideas?

    Here is a scan showing what is happening. This car pulls like a raped ape so hopefully it's something simple that I'm overlooking.

    2017-05-03 19_23_09-doubleshift.png
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  2. #2
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Post your current & stock tune and I'll take a look at it. I've tuned several A580 trans, and got the shift pressures figured out.

    Russ Kemp

  3. #3
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Post your current & stock tune and I'll take a look at it. I've tuned several A580 trans, and got the shift pressures figured out.

    Russ Kemp
    Sure thing:

    You can tell stock from current by date. I found that my engine torque management "auto trans torque adapts" are disabled so I turned those back on ahead of tomorrow's test pass. I also dropped from the 3.25" pulley to the 3.50" pulley because the boost is more than I would like right now.


    11192015_ 2013 Dodge Challenger RT.hpt

    05032017_2013 Dodge Challenger_B.hpt
    Last edited by Pector55; 05-03-2017 at 07:48 PM.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  4. #4
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Looks like you're hitting the rev limiter. Make the changes to your RPM limit in Drive. The Ramp Torque tables are where you firm up the shifts.

    The pic shows the difference compared to stock. Do the same for the 1-2, 3-4 & 4-5.
    If you want firmer shifts, raise the torque numbers.

    I disable the Shift Torque > General > TqRed upshift & downshift torque reduction drop down boxes.
    And I leave all the engine side > Torque Management > General & Engine tables stock.
    As disabling them will cause idle hunting in park/neutral.

    Russ Kemp
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  5. #5
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Russ,

    Just wanted to pass along that in the morning, I had tested my adjustments to the engine TM and it resolved the issue. However, I look at your suggestions at lunch and I agree that ever if I wasn't hitting the limiter in my 3rd to 4th shift, I definitely would have in the 1-2 and 2-3 so I widened that gap by increasing that limit.
    I also made adjustments to the tables for the shift pressure and that felt great. They are not neck snapping as some of my previous shift kits have created but these were much nicer with a firm bump and done. Thanks for providing the feedback sir.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  6. #6
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    Thanks Russ. I follow advice from your previous posts on tuning GM 4 and 6 speed transmissions. I don't tune many Dodges but I bookmarked this in case I forget the tables to modify to firm up shifts on them.

  7. #7
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    Angry NAG1 / WA580 Shifting Too High & Too Slow

    I'm having the same issue with my 2012 Dodge Charger SE 3.6L with NAG1, supercharged and tuned by RIPP. Ever since I swapped my gears from 2.65 to 3.06 my shift points at WOT are consistently 1-2 @ 6550 RPM and 2-3 @ 6450 RPM (6,400 is redline for Pentastar 3.6L) I'm afraid that will damage my engine internals. I did change the gear ratio in the Cluster tab and did the NAG1 Init. via HPD Tuners VCM. Prior to swapping 2.65 gears to 3.06 my shift points at WOT were at about 6100 RPM 1-2 and 6250 RPM 2-3, which was totally acceptable. My current TCM settings are as follows: TCM RPM Limit 6400 RPM, Limp Offset 500 RPM. Auto Shift Speed/WOT/Normal/Upshift: 1-2 1611, 2-3 2739, 3-4 4255 and 4-5 6000 (target 6000 RPM shift in every gear), WOT>Enable, Enable Pedal>98%, Autostick/Auto Upshift>Disable, Autostock WOT>Enabled, Shift Time/Max Shift Time>2800ms. In ECM/Fuel settings: Cutoff/DFCO/Maximum RPM is 6800 (don't know why RIPP tuner set it that high). I know there is a normal delay 200-250 RPM between the shifts but my shifts are extremely slow and I redline every time with WOT. A few times it bounced off rev limiter in 1st before it shifted to 2nd. Also, I'm not sure if that's a contributing factor but the Sport Mode has been enabled via Z-Automotive TranZformer. I like 2500-3000 RPM shifts while coasting. I attached some screenshots, .hpl and .hpt files for TCM and ECM. I don't know what I'm missing here, maybe someone could help me out. I'm pushing 420 BWHP and certainly don't want to be anywhere near redline. I'm looking for consistent 6000-6200 RPM shifts. Thanks in advance!

    Screenshot 1.jpgScreenshot 2.jpgScreenshot 3.jpgScreenshot 4.jpgScreenshot 5.jpg
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  8. #8
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    Don't be scared, I set my S/C Pentastars to shift at 7k (actually my personal JK is @ 7200 with 7500 rev limit).
    With blower and exhaust, peak power runs past 7k so we may as well use it!
    Haven't hurt an engne yet, these things are tough..

  9. #9
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Post your current & stock tune and I'll take a look at it. I've tuned several A580 trans, and got the shift pressures figured out.

    Russ Kemp
    Russ have you ever tuned the TCM to soften downshifts? I put in a new valvebody and man, that 4-3 downshift makes me uncomfortable. It's way harder than the rest.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  10. #10
    Senior Tuner Russ K's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pector55 View Post
    Russ have you ever tuned the TCM to soften downshifts? I put in a new valvebody and man, that 4-3 downshift makes me uncomfortable. It's way harder than the rest.
    Never had an issue with harsh downshifts. Try enabling the downshift torque management.
    What is the valve body application?

    Russ Kemp

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pector55 View Post
    Russ have you ever tuned the TCM to soften downshifts? I put in a new valvebody and man, that 4-3 downshift makes me uncomfortable. It's way harder than the rest.
    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Never had an issue with harsh downshifts. Try enabling the downshift torque management.
    What is the valve body application?

    Russ Kemp
    I've found the Paramount VB and transmissions to be very harsh on downshift. It gets exaggerated if you have a lot of decel airflow programmed in to compensate for large camshafts. Sometimes cleaning up your idle decay and TB settings can calm things down a little.
    Jaime

  12. #12
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    hi there >
    nice topics here so i wanted to share my issue to .. i got a 2007 - 300c 5.7 with heads.cam.intake manifold. 90mm throttle . long tubes headers with 3" cat and so on ,, the gear is nag1 with blue tops on it .. i did a dyno tune and got good power but after that i got slow and not firm shifts on d or on manual stick at 6500 and 6600 even at 6700 so my tuners said to me to disable the tq reduction on all up shifts and drop the tables to 0 and increase the fill pressure tables 1 and 3 by 20% more so i did ..
    after that i had a nick braking shifts on d while going slow even at down shifts ( i didnt disable the down shifts tq reduction ) and its hard more on 1-2 and 2-1 and sadly when i go wot i feel like the gear is heavy feels like something bulling the car from running or like its heavy bulling not like before it was not firm shift but it felt lite and quick run ..
    so what i did wrong and what i have to mode to make firm shifts and lite quick bulling at wot ???
    ty

  13. #13
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    I've been learning a lot about the transmission tuning.

    First, I had made a mistake by mistaking the 1-2, 2-3, 3-4 upshift torque reduction settings for ramp torque. Let me tell you... if you INCREASE those settings, it slows your shifts down to the point where at WOT, you sound like you are driving a manual. The good news is that I still ran a 10.96 @ 125 and I know I had at least a tenth or two on the table from those horribly (and audibly) slow shifts.

    Now, with using advice from Russ, I have increased my ramp torque settings, and I now have my torque reduction disabled for 1-2, 2-3, and 3-4 upshifts. I also decreased my torque reduction upshift amounts at the highest torque and rpm settings. Shift are much faster but one thing I do not like is how the car uses the throttle body (ETC). On the engine side, I leave the torque management stock but I have played with these settings in the past and using the trans torque element, you can see the torque drop along with the throttle, at the shift. Is it safe to disable (on the Engine side) Auto Trans Tqmgmt "Use ETC"?
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  14. #14
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Never had an issue with harsh downshifts. Try enabling the downshift torque management.
    What is the valve body application?

    Russ Kemp
    Just to clarify, the valvebody was not my problem. It just seemed to really expose my mistake in the tune. I have a Dings valve body and she really hits nice and crisp now.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker

  15. #15
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    can i see your tune? i did some tq playing around and ya now its more slow lool

  16. #16
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    Chrysler 300C AWD 6.1 Block, 6.4 Strocker Kit, Paramountperformence valve body and AMG transmission upgrade

    could anyone of you have a short look on my upshift ramp torque tables. I think the are a little callow.
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  17. #17
    Tuner Pector55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Russ K View Post
    Looks like you're hitting the rev limiter. Make the changes to your RPM limit in Drive. The Ramp Torque tables are where you firm up the shifts.

    The pic shows the difference compared to stock. Do the same for the 1-2, 3-4 & 4-5.
    If you want firmer shifts, raise the torque numbers.

    I disable the Shift Torque > General > TqRed upshift & downshift torque reduction drop down boxes.
    And I leave all the engine side > Torque Management > General & Engine tables stock.
    As disabling them will cause idle hunting in park/neutral.

    Russ Kemp
    Just curious about how you derived how much increase you added Russ. Did you go buy feel until you got there or did you look at what values your trans was recording as torque? I ask because I'm making more power now and I've been looking at the "Trans Engine Torque" element. I know it's a calculated number and as per a recent dynojet it's not closely tied to actual engine or wheel torque but it has increased a similar amount compared to where I was.
    2013 Dodge Challenger RT Plus - Shaker