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Thread: Road tuners - Delivered Engine Torque confusion

  1. #1
    Advanced Tuner
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    Road tuners - Delivered Engine Torque confusion

    Road tuners,

    What is the best measurement for an indication that you're making more power?

    Delivered Engine Torque?
    Gram per Cylinder?
    Dynamic Air?

    The reason I ask is because this morning, I had a rich pull, (12.0 ? 12.3 AFR), and the numbers were significantly higher than with a leaner pull (12.7-12.8). Same day, same temps. Richer AFR's seem to give higher DET's. But I feel as if the leaner pulls are faster? I know the DET numbers are based on certain calculations (MAF, VE), but I'm confused.

    Shouldn't these number only be higher when you are making more power?

    DynAir and ClyAir is higher too?..with richer AFR's.

    When you command richer AFR's do DET's increase? This seems to be the case, because leaner, they decrease.

    This is on a N/A vette.

    I'm wondering if making an Acceleration Rate math parameter will work since it won't take MAF, VE, Timing into consideration.
    Last edited by SVT_Z06; 11-29-2017 at 05:23 PM.

  2. #2
    Advanced Tuner
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    I'm usually looking at airflow, whether it be dynamic or MAF.

    Lately I've been paying more attention to Delivered Torque, but I still base my opinions on overall airflow

  3. #3
    Senior Tuner mbray01's Avatar
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    the problem with relying on the delivered torque number, or air mass number is that they are just arbitrary numbers based on inputs you have manipulated. Do you have a calibrated maf, that you know its exact, because all the calculations within the ecm are just that, calculations. I can make an engine show more airflow, and show more delivered torque, yet make less power. You are venturing down a slippery slope looking at numbers the ecm is spitting out. Does the vehicle feel like its making more power? Its amazing what the butt dyno will tell you. Other than that put it on a dyno and see if it actually is
    Michael Bray
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbray01 View Post
    the problem with relying on the delivered torque number, or air mass number is that they are just arbitrary numbers based on inputs you have manipulated. Do you have a calibrated maf, that you know its exact, because all the calculations within the ecm are just that, calculations. I can make an engine show more airflow, and show more delivered torque, yet make less power. You are venturing down a slippery slope looking at numbers the ecm is spitting out. Does the vehicle feel like its making more power? Its amazing what the butt dyno will tell you. Other than that put it on a dyno and see if it actually is
    Yes, the MAF is pretty accurate.

    In my findings increasing the MAF increases the DET/DynAir/CylAir values. So I'd guess that's how you would make an engine show more airflow?

    Anyway, I am working on building an acceleration rate math parameter. Going to see if those values increase/decrease during some tuning runs.