max timing most run? lsa

[curtmgulla]

so i know it will be differnt each setup but a general area i have a 13 zl1 lsa with 2.45 upper making 12.8-13 psi id1050x injectors headers.. no cats..3" corsa exhaust.. and i was at 18-19* at wot AFr of 11.3-11.5 then i decided to see and added 2* no knock added 2* more no knock felt powerful but same time is 23-24* to much? what are others running?

[gmorris]

Depends greatly on what fuel you run as well as your altitude. I'm running 18 degrees @ WOT with a 9.55" lower, stock cam and feel it was pretty conservative. I'm now retuning for btr3 cam then more timing with meth. Most tunes I've seen on stock cam are in the 18-20 degree neighbourhood.

[curtmgulla]

right now 93 octane for mostly street track i have vp113 if needed and octainium adative from vp. just becuase i show no knock i wanted to be sure it was still safe..

[GHuggins]

With a 102 inlet, carbon fiber K&N cold air, kooks long tubes, "gutted" cats, stock exhaust and custom cam - I was running 24.5 at peak rpm and 16psi pulley configuration putting down 760 to the tires all day long

AND just a FYI - the knock sensors on these things are super sensitive - you can usually run 2 to 3 more degrees of timing in areas where it matters after detuning them slightly without any problems... I do recommend a dyno before going much higher than you are though...

[ZincGT]

Is that on E85?

[GHuggins]

93 - I got 70rwhp just with my custom cam and some timing tweaks to go with it... There's also roughly 20 to 30 hp in these things running the high flow canisters gutted if you still have the factory exhaust from the cats back...

[curtmgulla]

Ok thank you I will keep watch on knock and see how it goes. How far do I need to desensitize the sensors.

[Area47]

with cammed and pump gas setups i have pushed 24-25 depending on the cam and such. e85 is higher. {not as high as some "tuners" on the v forums"}

[curtmgulla]

with cammed and pump gas setups i have pushed 24-25 depending on the cam and such. e85 is higher. {not as high as some "tuners" on the v forums"}

so 22* tapering to 21 past 6k should be safe and ok as long as no knock counts?

[Area47]

depends on what the plugs look like and how the car reacts to it.

[GrannySShifting]

With a 102 inlet, carbon fiber K&N cold air, kooks long tubes, "gutted" cats, stock exhaust and custom cam - I was running 24.5 at peak rpm and 16psi pulley configuration putting down 760 to the tires all day long

AND just a FYI - the knock sensors on these things are super sensitive - you can usually run 2 to 3 more degrees of timing in areas where it matters after detuning them slightly without any problems... I do recommend a dyno before going much higher than you are though...

What settings are you using for knock sensor, mind posting tune file? Never had any instances of it not registering when it should, or push it a degree or two furtherr and it does pick up knock?

What kind of air/fuel ratio are you runnign that kind of timing at? I cant get them to take more than low 20s on the street and KR be clean under a real load obviously inertia dyno let you get away with alot

[GHuggins]

^^^ this is on a load bearing dyno with a heavy simulated load for tuning - I go to a simulated wind resistance and car weight load for final wot fueling and timing tuning - only way to really have it right through extensive testing... You have my email - just shoot me a message... Injection timing, how timing is ramped in and actually a slightly leaner than most shoot for wot fueling is what makes the difference... These things come from the factory commanding 12:1 afr's for a reason I believe - I run them at 11.7 to 12:1... You also need to make sure your iat timing pullers are setup correctly, so it starts pulling timing at the right temperatures - I have extensive testing on this for the lsa's too...

[ABADZL1]

I've been helping Curt with his tune, the KR was very random and in every part of the table when you first stomp on it. He did have rattle under the car from the corsa exhaust hitting a brace. Seems the random KR is pretty much gone after he fixed that. Did see like 0.8 in one block of the spark table but it didnt stick around. I'm hoping the exhaust rattle fixed it. At first when we started messing with his tune, I had never seen a car with so much random knock. His knock sensors are desensitized already. His wot Lambda is nailed at .78x.
Greg, I've never seen a factory ZL1 running 12's at wot. Mine was 10.8-11.1 as well as few others I've messed with. Interesting......

[GrannySShifting]

^^^ this is on a load bearing dyno with a heavy simulated load for tuning - I go to a simulated wind resistance and car weight load for final wot fueling and timing tuning - only way to really have it right through extensive testing... You have my email - just shoot me a message... Injection timing, how timing is ramped in and actually a slightly leaner than most shoot for wot fueling is what makes the difference... These things come from the factory commanding 12:1 afr's for a reason I believe - I run them at 11.7 to 12:1... You also need to make sure your iat timing pullers are setup correctly, so it starts pulling timing at the right temperatures - I have extensive testing on this for the lsa's too...

Ive been thinking about picking up a in cylinder pressure trasnducer setup Ive found real cheap for that. If you thought a knock sensor was helpful! Ha

Cool, Ill email you. I miss my Mustang eddy current so much, and for the boat application none of that transfers anyway

[GHuggins]

I've been helping Curt with his tune, the KR was very random and in every part of the table when you first stomp on it. He did have rattle under the car from the corsa exhaust hitting a brace. Seems the random KR is pretty much gone after he fixed that. Did see like 0.8 in one block of the spark table but it didnt stick around. I'm hoping the exhaust rattle fixed it. At first when we started messing with his tune, I had never seen a car with so much random knock. His knock sensors are desensitized already. His wot Lambda is nailed at .78x.
Greg, I've never seen a factory ZL1 running 12's at wot. Mine was 10.8-11.1 as well as few others I've messed with. Interesting......

If you don't have enough load on the car it reads a whole lot richer. One of the main reasons for why I dyno with loads now. It would either go one way or the other. Dyno out right then hit the road and either be rich or lean then. Started tuning with loads and fueling is what it dynoed out to on the road.

[Area47]

If you don't have enough load on the car it reads a whole lot richer. One of the main reasons for why I dyno with loads now. It would either go one way or the other. Dyno out right then hit the road and either be rich or lean then. Started tuning with loads and fueling is what it dynoed out to on the road.

gear has a lot to do with it as well.

The again , the law of diminishing returns still applies.

[ABADZL1]

If you don't have enough load on the car it reads a whole lot richer. One of the main reasons for why I dyno with loads now. It would either go one way or the other. Dyno out right then hit the road and either be rich or lean then. Started tuning with loads and fueling is what it dynoed out to on the road.

Do you use the same load that the car would see on the street? Or more load than that?

[GHuggins]

Pretty close to actual conditions on the street... It'll never be perfect - they're all math calculations for wind resistance and weight... To simulate pulling a steeper incline I even set the dyno to a diesel truck setting and do a couple of runs - best way to simulate worst case real world for final timing tweaks...