I did a comparison with your F-150 file and the torque tables are the same (along with inverse). I think they just shoehorned the truck engine into the car.
I did a comparison with your F-150 file and the torque tables are the same (along with inverse). I think they just shoehorned the truck engine into the car.
I added a link to my spreadsheet a couple posts back.
Thanks. I already started working on a calculation for the 2.5 row. First method was using the slope of the line (or a close approximation) to extrapolate the extra data point. The other method looked at the delta for the 1.9 to 2.2 airload torque, and then add that delta to the 2.2 airload torque. This method puts me within 0-5 ft-lb of your values.
Here's what I did with mine. Basically How i did this was through excel. I found a pattern between the 1.0-1.3 and the 1.3-1.6 torque figures on mine, and then divided them up so I could calculate what torque was for every .1 increase. Then I just used my formula to get the airload and torque I needed. I had to do this for every table. Then I just used the hptuners inverse calculator to calculate all the inverse values. I feel that I havent explained this very well, but I will post the stock file and the modified file for this for you to see what was done.2016 F-150 Ecoboost 3.5 Stock Read.hpt2016 F-150 Ecoboost 3.5 MODIFIED TORQUE TABLES FINAL.hpt
This was one of the few times I wanted numbers that were ‘less accurate’. Since I didn’t have any method to give me actual numbers to fill in the new cells I picked one mapped point, plotted the values as a graph, did a couple different equations to see which made an extrapolates line I liked the look of, used that equation on three other points and verified their graphs, then just ran the rest of the tables through the spread sheet.
My thinking was I wanted numbers generally in line with the trend, but I would be surprised if I was accurate to 10 ft/lbs +/- off actual values. My train of thought essentially boiled down to the old adage garbage in = garbage out knowing my input values wouldn’t be able to straight equate to output values. I believe I tended to round down slightly as well due to effeciency loss with increasing air loads.
I figured there is a slope between the torque values within each RPM column and just used the slip between 1.6 to 2.2 and extrapolated the point for 2.5
For the inverse calculator, I can never xlick on the invesrse button on the bottom. How does it work? Do I need to highlight the cells or something?
Make the changes to the torque tables in the calculator itself. The button will be "alive" when a change is made.Originally Posted by metroplex
You have to take the torque tables and copy them one by one and paste them into the calculator, picking the right table at the top 0-14 and op, then it will let you calculate the inverse one by one. You also have to make sure you have the right torque value on the torque tables and inverse tables to the left for it to calculate them right.
So I can't just make the changes to the torque tables, then go into the inverse torque calculator?
Do I need to open up the inverse torque tables for the calculator to work?
To make it work properly, do I:
1). Open up the calculator
2). Make the changes to the torque table inside the calculator
3). Hit the inverse calculation button??
1). Make changes to the torque table on the table itself and the axis
2). Copy the table
3). Open the calculator and paste the changes making sure you've picked the right table in the calculator tab
4). Click the button to calculate the inverse for that table
5). Repeat for every table
Thanks but I ended up adding 0 to the cells and the button became active. Some of the inverse table values don't make sense, but unless someone in the know chimes in, I still feel the PCM will automatically compensate if airload exceeds 2.2 with the stock tables especially since we are basically doing a linear approximation anyhow.
I did my first real street test since the potholes and road conditions were good enough to drive the FSport. I noticed the Turbo FMEM, TQ Red, and insufficient fuel errors popping up that I've read about on 15-up EcoBoost strategies. The interesting part is when Turbo FMEM and TQ Red < Demand popped up, the throttle plate wasn't closing. It just kept on trucking. Should I be concerned about these errors even though the throttle isn't closing and no other things are going on?
But I think because I turned off Torque Based Shift Schedule, I kept hitting the 6500 RPM revlimiter instead of shifting at the commanded 6250 RPM. It might because the shift schedules are based on OSS and those values were just above the 6500 RPM revlimiter???
I'm running at 18-19 psi instead of the stock 12-14 psi at WOT, and it is flowing about 42 lb/min instead of 36 lb/min stock. I also increased timing a little more. How much more does the 2.7 have in it in terms of air mass flow and boost? The F-150 2.7's torque tables are the same as the Fusion Sport, so I'm assuming they are running the same hardware in the engine? Are the truck guys going to much higher boost levels?
Short answer is you don't have that much more left. With the wastegate fully shut from 5700 RPMs -> 6200 RPMs my peak turbo MF lb/min is 44.75. At those air flows my charge temps start at 100, dip to 94, and then max at 150 with sensor ambient @ 84 degrees doing a 4th gear pull on a dyno (first pull). So you can get a little more airflow, but you're going to pay on the heat side badly without an intercooler. To relate that to boost/air load max boost I see (ambient @ 84) is ~22 psi, that's where it hits the torque target it wants, it could make more, and that is ~2.35 air load to hit that much boost.
As for all the limits popping up, if they're popping up under a max source you may not see a throttle closure as it will start pulling desired air load back slowly to compensate. Essentially you are 'getting close' to the limit and it's trying to help keep you from going past it, as opposed to running headlong into it. Generally (though not always) if you see your throttle angle source switch to TQ Red. < Driver Demand you will see a throttle closure. If you're not seeing a throttle closure it's probably because your air load is already low enough that it doesn't need to close the throttle to hit the limit it wants. The limiters themselves aren't an issue, ideally you want them dialed in where you feel they're safe.
I still feel there is a limiter for desired torque on mine. It caps at 406 while yours was at 448 and I think the tables in trans tq Mgmt (2A 3A etc) were controlling it, but those are not available for the Fusion Sport. My air load peaks at about 2.15 but at WOT near 6250 RPM it is more around 1.9
Just an update, it still looks like there is a locked parameter preventing me from requesting more than 406 ft-lb, as a result this limits my airload and boost. I reported it to HPTuners but haven't heard back. The F-150 owners shouldn't have a problem with the 2.7 because their trans parameters are all unlocked. It's just the Fusion Sport and possibly Ford Edge Sport.
I can confirm that the Fusion sport log shows a max ETC Torque request of 406 with every table and parameter currently in the beta raised above that number. To further confirm if you limit a 2.7 F-150 to 406 ft/lbs in the trans tables that it has and the Fusion's don't you get an almost identical log, where as if you raise that to 450 or 500 ft/lbs you get significantly more air load, especially before 5000 rpms. Hopefully Eric can take a look at this and make some headway after he found the odd first gear limit on the F-150's.
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