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Advanced Tuner
Any tune basics for the 65RFE ?
I have a 14 RAM 1500 crew cab on 35's with the factory 3.91's, corrected for the tires with HPT, but i'd like to dial a little bit of the part throttle downshifts as they're lazy, i see what i think are the tables i'll have to change.
I see tables for Drive and Overdrive, i opened the ones for Drive, but i don't think we're using those with this trucks.
So i guess i should be looking into the overdrive/Normal shifts
But then the stupid trans is a 5 speed instead of 6 speed, and it does some sort of tq coverter lookup for the 6th gear ? in any case
For shift, it uses output shaft rpm vs TP%, so to upshift the shaft speed has to be at or exceed the shaft RPM for the particualt TP% cell.
How about for downshifts? does it use the same logic, the output shaft has to exceed the rpm for the TP%? or be below that output shaft RPM for the TP% cel ?
Also there is a master 2-3 shift switch in the calibration that is disabled form factory. is this why the truck only seems to use 2-3 shift while shifting manually? 2nd and 3rd gear are super close in ratios, 1.66:1 vs 1.50:1, so in normal mode the trans goes 1-2 and then 2-4, but if i shift manually, i can feel the 1-2,2-3 then 3-4, would i screw something up if enable that 2-3 master switch ? sure i know i can try on my own, but i wanted to check before since i don't knoow anything about this trans, fact i haven't touched anything in the trans for that reason.
also is it possible to speed up the shifts a little ? this is prob the slower trans i've ever had , i'm not racing the truck, just wondering if i can make the trans a little less lazy.
Thanks a lot.
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Potential Tuner
I'm actually in the same boat with my 2012 Durango with the 6 speed 65RFE. The most annoying trans I've ever owned in a car. WTF were they thinking of using a 3.0 1st gear and then a 1.667 2nd and 1.50 for 3rd. I live in Switzerland and we have mountains. It's annoying that a Peugeot 206 with a 1.4l 4 cylinder can easily pass you because you are stuck in 2nd which is in too low revs to actually have enough power. The shifting is erratic and stupid. I know they wanted to have good fuel economy but I don't care about that. I want crisp, fast and precise shifts.
Do you also have the lurking when not completely coming to a stop, say 5-10mph and then you want to accelerate but all you get is RPMs but no real movement. It's stuck in 4th and it's using the stall of the converter to move it. They tried to fix that in a TSB but hell it's still not what I expect.... hence the reason I bought the HP Tuner stuff.
I'm comparing at the moment a 2013 Ram tune also with the 6-speed and find a lot of similar settings.
Here some difference i do not understand. The "desired acceleration at WOT" for the 1-2 is set at "-5269" for the Durango where it is -7500 for the Ram.
2012 Durango 5,7l V8 with 6 speed.JPG
What does this parameter actually do? The rest of the WOT points are identical between Durango and RAM.
Is there someone around which actually has a plan on which parameters to really change to get fast reacting, crisp and firm shifts? The explanations of the fields are sometimes not really that explaining what it is for. I do not have issues tuning the GM trannies and engines but somehow I find the Dodge settings really confusing :-)
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Potential Tuner
the desired acceleration offset is the speed the shift is performed. don't go beyond -8000. it would shift to fast and bind clutches. I can help you set up all the settings if you would like.
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Potential Tuner
Thanks for the info Chad pope, really appreciate that.
Do you have an explanation on the Ramp Rate values? What I really miss in HP Tuner is a better explanation of the settings and it's values. Sometimes it's just reworded title of the section itself. Some examples would be nice sometimes.
So far I changed the shift point to leave it in the same gear longer before shifting. Set also the 2-3 enable to true so it is always using 3rd even on normal acceleration and also set the shiftpoints there to use the 3rd longer before shifting into 4th. This helped to make this harsh step from 2-4 not that dramatic and annoying.
I'm also setting the downshifts so that it will shift into 1st much earlier instead of lurking in 2nd and not being able to accelerate without having to force it to downshift. I think one of the most annoying things of this trans is the the tune for fuel economy and comfort. In Switzerland we have a lot of roundabout traffics where you slow down to maybe 10mph and if no one is there you want to proceed accelerating into it but the trans hangs in 4th and is fully only using the stall of the converter to accelerate. They tried to fix that in a TSB but way to soft and it's still happening. Same for 4th to 2nd downshifts etc. really slow and unresponsive. If you have some tips to make the trans more responsive I think a lot of us would love this information and would appreciate it.
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Potential Tuner
ok so lets first start with the desired acceleration charts. Go to your shift general chart and look at your desired acceleration offset line. start with making all those in that line( 0 ) . that's really going to take the slush box feel out of that tranny. next go to your general line and click on throttle interpret. make all of those 100. that is the variable pressure control. it changes pressure as the throttle is pressed. next click on shift pressure, then click on upshift. this is the duty cycle that determines how much pressure is running at any given point from torque output. same concept as the throttle interpret. make all those 100 . next scroll over to general on the shift pressure. start with the max pressure lock. this will not let the line pressure build any higher than what you put here. I have mine set at 190. I wouldn't go any higher than 180-190 unless you have a upgraded separator plate in the valve body. to much pressure makes cross leaks. next click on the min line pressure and make it the same as the max neutral pressure (125). next click on max line pressure, this is were you can set the pressure to how you want it to shift. if you like it firm and snappy ,start with 170-180. most like 160-170. just remember what you put your max pressure lock at and don't go above that. next click on pressure fluid temp and set to 0. we want control of the pressure not to temp lol. next click on pressure gain/gear and max out those values. next go to torque converter and then click on general. scroll to the tcc shift slip and tcc shift slip thresh and set those to 0. that is just unwanted heat. next go to manual and click on skip shift enable ect and max that out so it wont skip shift. next you can play with torque management. I have disabled all mine and I have a heavy crew cab with no issues for over a year with a very firm trans shift. I really hope this helps someone. there wasn't any writeup when I was playing with the 545 and the 65rfe tuning. let me know if I can help
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Potential Tuner
I did fail to mention the desired acceleration wot. that is how fast it shifts at wot so the more negative you make it the faster it shifts. I wouldn't go any more than -8000
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Tuner
This is a great read and just in time too. I have a 14 ram 6 speed at the shop ill be dynoing tomorrow. I'm excited to put this to the test.
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Potential Tuner
Let me know how you like it. I'm curious to get other people's feedback on those settings. Everyone that rides in my truck says how good that transmisdion feels
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Tuner
Personally I loved the way it shift and felt. before it felt like a dog very sluggish. I had the pressures set to 150 but my manager drove it and wants it more firm so I upped to 170. I will take it for a test drive. truck is all stock with just A carven and S&B filter. I'll update when I get back from the test drive. I really appreciate the input. I come from tuning gms and fords so the dodge transmissions are a whole new learning curve.
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Potential Tuner
your very welcome. if its firm crisp shift your really after you can go as high as 185-190. 10 psi makes a big difference in these transmissions more so in part throttle driving
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Tuner
so I ran into another problem the converter is locking up between 2-3 shift causing a bad surge/lunge feeling. I'll revise that and move forward. besides that everything feels great.
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Tuner
Figured it out. I kept hitting the tcc lock right before the 2-3 shift I just raised the apply speed to 2200+ and it solved it.
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Potential Tuner
ya the tcc lock up to me is way to low. i have mine set to lock at top of 4th. im glad everything doing good for you. how did the shifts feel with the pressure at 170?
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Tuner
I loved it I left part throttle Duty cycle at just 1.25 higher than stock and wot I went full. so its smooth downlow and at wot it has a good push to it. customer should be happy. I appreciate all the info.
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Potential Tuner
I also changed the values to the proposal of Chad but I find it to bumpy in normal light acceleration. Which table are you talking about Tadias48? I also changed a lot of the downshift points to be much faster and earlier. Especially the 2-1 downshift and 4-3 and 3-2 downshifts. This makes this thing so much more driveable!
Did someone already mess around with the ECM34542 - Power % Request (Flywheel)? If the description text is correct and this table is used there is quite some power left behind, or is not used at all?
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Tuner
I was talking about the pressure duty cycle table ecm46102-46107
and the power request I think is just a way to sensitize the pedal a little more. I personally didn't mess with that table but its another method of driver demand from what I'm understanding. so for certain pedal percent it wont let you go over certain power % so the more percent you raise it the more power it request. giving you that touchy sensitive pedal feel.
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Potential Tuner
The pressure duty cycle is what gives you the shift feel at part throttle to wot. I like mine nice and sharp shifts so thats why i have mine at 100% all the way down the table. Hopefully my write up give people more of a understanding of how these crazy transmissions work. I know there isnt much info out there
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Tuner
correct that's why I increased it partially. mainly to firm it up but also not have that super firm neck snapping feel. I like to have a little bit of comfort. and it feels great at just a 25% increase. got rid of that slosh feel as well. once the torque converter lock was moved up it solved all the other issues. I greatly appreciate this information. specially since a lot of dodge tuners like to keep the info to themselves haha.
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Potential Tuner
Today I also changed the values in the ecm34542 table and boy this was the most noticeable change ever. Now my Durango feels as it has all the full power from the beginning from stand still. The sluggish feeling is gone completely. It's now like normal cable driven throttle bodies. Your foot now drives how much torque you command and not a silly setting lowering it to 25% of the real power the engine has! Of course you need to drive it now completely different as you have the full power all the time. A slight stutter in your toe (really) will now demand power and the cars wants to move.
With all my changes done now you have 1-4 full usable gears and no stupid 2-4 shifts and much faster downshifts to the gears. It now feels like a completely different car! If someone is interested in my changes let me know I would share it because as Tadias48 said it seems that all are keeping their secretes with this transmissions and engines. :-)
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Potential Tuner
Good deal glad it worked good for you