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Thread: '15 Cruze Turbo - Why can't I get my boost to turn up?

  1. #41
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    dont worry about it. it was my bad ive been having a off couple days and just been short with people lately so i apologize. we are all here to offer assistance when possible so dont worry about it. its all part of the learning. everyone had to of started from somewhere you know. so again, sorry about earlier. make the new tune and go for a drive and see how she does and let us know. if your going to be making some decent changes save it as another file and make quick labels as to what like ... boost changes or spark changes ... so you always have a good working backup in case the vehicle did not response well to the changes
    Last edited by TCSS07; 03-03-2019 at 05:50 PM.

  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    dont worry about it. it was my bad ive been having a off couple days and just been short with people lately so i apologize. we are all here to offer assistance when possible so dont worry about it. its all part of the learning. everyone had to of started from somewhere you know. so again, sorry about earlier. make the new tune and go for a drive and see how she does and let us know. if your going to be making some decent changes save it as another file and make quick labels as to what like ... boost changes or spark changes ... so you always have a good working backup in case the vehicle did not response well to the changes
    For sure. Thanks a bunch, and don't sweat it. Hopefully I will be able to help others out too (I contribute heavily to open source software, so helping others is close to my heart). I made the changes (and found the test disable stuff too. It took me a minute to realize that I can search with the navigator.). I am going to look with fresh eyes tomorrow morning and make sure I have everything set up properly, flash, log, and repost.

    Quick question. So, I know I need a wideband, but I don't have the pro version of hp tuners, though in my research I have seen that people have spliced into the egr wiring and/or a/c wiring so that I can at least get a feed to my device without needing to buy the pro version (not yet, anyway). What are your thoughts/experience with this? I have found quite a few wideband sensors, and I have a catless dp with the extra bung for it, but as for getting the signal to Scanner, I am pretty much thinking that the only way without the pro version is to tap into an existing signal wire in the harness, which it seems to be the case from what I have read.

  3. #43
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    I havent had experience doing that as I have the pro version but it will work all you need is a 5 volt reference so you give the wideband its proper scale. I tuned my buddies sonic without it doing that. Its harder to tune but its doable. But hooking it up and logging the afr/lambda vs error is a much better way lol

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by RoninDusette View Post
    For sure. Thanks a bunch, and don't sweat it. Hopefully I will be able to help others out too (I contribute heavily to open source software, so helping others is close to my heart). I made the changes (and found the test disable stuff too. It took me a minute to realize that I can search with the navigator.). I am going to look with fresh eyes tomorrow morning and make sure I have everything set up properly, flash, log, and repost.

    Quick question. So, I know I need a wideband, but I don't have the pro version of hp tuners, though in my research I have seen that people have spliced into the egr wiring and/or a/c wiring so that I can at least get a feed to my device without needing to buy the pro version (not yet, anyway). What are your thoughts/experience with this? I have found quite a few wideband sensors, and I have a catless dp with the extra bung for it, but as for getting the signal to Scanner, I am pretty much thinking that the only way without the pro version is to tap into an existing signal wire in the harness, which it seems to be the case from what I have read.
    Aem 30-0334 x series wideband allows you to plug into the obd2 port and HP tuners plugs into that so you can log in the scanner without pro. I bought one but haven't tried it out yet. If you are planning on getting pro it might not be any cheaper. Tge wideband is like $230 I think

  5. #45
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    Meh... So I made the changes suggested and now I am back at ~82% throttle. I am confused on where I am missing this. I get that the boost was higher before, but it seemed like when I got on it with the 6b tune it just pulled like a mofo, with little knock and running a little rich. Now going to from the tune where I had full 100% throttle at WOT, making the suggested changes, it ramps in much slower (full throttle at 3100-3200 is where I like to hit it), though it does keep pulling throughout the band, it's only hitting 16psi if I am lucky. At least that is what I am seeing. I want it to top out at 18-19psi at 100% throttle.


    Can anyone help me find the bottleneck?
    Attached Files Attached Files

  6. #46
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    the tps isnt going to read 100% it never does 84% is max for that - some others read 88%. i think you can log a few other throttle pids to get it to read 100%. the boost held 210-215kpa which is pretty much 16-17psi which is the max for that turbo. your not going to gain any more power going higher. the turbo just cant keep up. having a overly rich afr will dog the car so to speak as well. your going to have to play around with the driver demand tables and the knock airmass, pressure delta factor and get the afr dialed in.
    max boost = max boost allowed
    pressure delta factor = max boost limiter and boost ramp in
    knock air mass = limit boost based off airmass allowed and spark
    driver demand = lb ft power requested (your application)
    pressure ratio max = upper end boost limiting (when boost starts to fall - but yours stayed where it should be)
    the link i sent you also has a description as to what the tables do however i forget what page its on - could be on the linked page - not sure
    Last edited by TCSS07; 03-07-2019 at 08:07 PM.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    the tps isnt going to read 100% it never does 84% is max for that. i think you can log a few other throttle pids to get it to read 100%. the boost held 210-215which is pretty much 16-17psi which is max for that turbo. your not going to gain any more power going higher. the turbo just cant keep up
    Word. It just doesn't have the "pin you back feel" like the 6b tune. Though it does pull up higher much better. I guess now I just need to tune idle/cruising stuff to try and get my gas mileage a little better. From what I saw I'm not running as rich right?

  8. #48
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    I do LTFT tuning - some others do STFT and some do open loop/wideband tuning - i always try to get a LTFT of -3 to -5%
    your idle and P/T trims are rich yeah. i would take maf hz cells 1950 through 3000 and remove 1/2% from the log by highlighting those cells in the log and hit copy then when your in your maf chart to paste it by right click on the mouse and go to paste special by 1/2%
    wot is probably still a little on the rich side but without a wideband hard to say. during a 2nd gear pull i try to get the 02 mv to stay around 900-915mv but o2 mv are a guessing game at best but generally around a 900mv is generally considered "safe". so i suppose you can remove a little more fueling out of it start small like 5% which would be for you to multiply by .95 (removing 5%) as the inverse to 1.05 (adding 5%) from cells maf hz 3900 to the end at 15000. i also never liked that dip in the maf chart so in my old file i smoothed that section out. it will serve you no purpose since youll never hit those cells but i however like it to look good lol
    the other cells seem to be tune in pretty well with them all averaging -2%. like i said i shoot for -3 to -5 however at a certain point it becomes nitpicking since fuel trims change day to day
    Last edited by TCSS07; 03-07-2019 at 08:11 PM.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by KLUG'S SS View Post
    I'm just going to add a couple things to this thread for anyone reading it. Any of these newer torque based pcms like the E39,E78,E92 etc etc it's important to not get carried away with the driver demand and any other torque management tables. They are designed to be used in accurate prediction and calculation of the torque output of the engine. Raising up these tables to crazy high numbers is not necessary to achieve the results people are after. This can be seen by truly studying everything closely in an OEM calibration the way it is setup. I've got an extensive amount of time into tuning these factory turbo cars now and I can show in a log where even 25-30 psi yes 25-30 psi can be achieved on this car in particular with having the driver demand table set to no higher than 180 in the bottom row as well as leaving the pressure delta factor stock and raising the knock airmass table just over the maximum airmass that the engine is seeing in the first couple columns of the 0,-1,-3 while leaving the rest of the knock airmass table stock or close to it allowing it to actually do the job it was intended to do. That bad tank of fuel is absolutely always a possibility or maybe someone accidentally puts lower grade 87 octane in the car that's running an aggressive tune. Spark knock and now no control for the pcm to reduce boost having the whole knock airmass table set to like 1.5 (for example) like I've seen in tunes, a bad combination.
    Could you share which tables then I should focus on to modify to get a good solid hold on boost all the way thru...not looking for numbers but just the main tables in your opinion that i can focus in and play with....thx!
    2010 /2SS/Shorty headers/ Magnaflow axle back/LSA Conversion/ 2 bar OS running MAF

  10. #50
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    https://forum.hptuners.com/showthrea...-Tuning/page11
    this has pretty much all the info youll need

  11. #51
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    So much knock

    I have been trying all weekend to tune the virtual VE tables. After disabling MAF and DFCO, I was only logging STFT (disabled LTFT), closed loop 3 or four times, and it started getting better. I came home for a bit, and was reading, and then I thought I was doing something wrong by doing it in closed loop. So I went and did it in open loop. WOW. ALLLL kinds of messed up. So much knock. The car sounded so grumpy.

    So, the tune I posted that says "BEST SPEED SO FAR" runs great, and I get a tiny tiny bit of knock every once in a while.". That is what I am reverting to unless you guys can help me with this new one. I don't know what I am not getting. I have been reading my ass off.

    Best speed one is my default tune for a while now (its fast and doesn't break. Just rich). The log and "corrections-6" are the terrible ones (NOTE that I already used the KR scanner table to correct the spark table in that tune.

    Thanks for any help you can give me.

  12. #52
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    Also, I decided to just try and make a tune on the fly. I haven't flashed it. Just used what I have learned so far, at least what I can remember. I tried to keep it reasonable without blowing all of the numbers through the roof. Let me know what you guys things. Questions, concerns, etc.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  13. #53
    I'm running 22 psi with my cruze. You must up the Wastegate DC in the high pressure ratio areas or it will under boost and bounce the wastegate DC. I log Current pressure ratio and desired PR. It is easy to see where the DC needs to be increased to achieve the desired boost.

    Also, leave VE tuning alone until you get a better grasp at everything else.

  14. #54
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    So I know it has been a minute since I posted. Right now I am rocking a tune from KLUG'S SS. I found out what was causing the crazy knock. It was phantom knock from my cold air intake rattling around. I now have a ZZP intake, catless downpipe and catless midpipe. It runs really smooth in general, but it is running really rich when not in PE (I can smell gas at idle and just driving around. Freeway it's actually fine), 2 issues and maybe someone can point me in the right direction.

    1) What do I log and what table do I modify tune my idle and low rpm (street driving) fuel trims? Basically, how do I log fuel trims and subsequently use them to tune the car for driving outside of PE?

    2) My boost, while peaking at 19-20 psi, and it will usually stay there, but it really seems to lose it's get-up-and-go after 4400 rpm or so. Except in 4th gear on the freeway. The car loves 4th gear, 4000 rpm, and PE. Lol. I imagine it gets heatsoaked easy (the ic and charge piping). I have an FMIC from ZZP along with the piping waiting to go on, but what would I be looking for?

  15. #55
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    1.) That depends on which trims your going to use for tuning. Some people use short term and some use long term. I use long term and shoot for -5% ltft. You will have to add fuel trims to the scanner channels if you haven't done so but if I recall you already have. You will need to make histograms mirroring the vve table and or the maf chart logging fuel trims (long term or short term or both on separate histograms) which ever your choosing to use for the fueling map and use that data to make changes. Lean error means you need to add fuel (make the numbers larger) and rich error means you need to subtract fuel (make the numbers smaller). I usually use the paste 1/2 % if the error is under 10%. If its higher I will do the full % paste

    2.) The stock turbo isn't built for high end horse power. It was never intended for that and going above 17psi on that turbo your not going to gain that much more in power if any because of the turbos inefficiency at higher boost levels.
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-17-2019 at 09:01 PM.

  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    1.) That depends on which trims your going to use for tuning. Some people use short term and some use long term. I use long term and shoot for -5% ltft. You will have to add fuel trims to the scanner channels if you haven't done so but if I recall you already have. You will need to make histograms mirroring the vve table and or the maf chart logging fuel trims (long term or short term or both on separate histograms) which ever your choosing to use for the fueling map and use that data to make changes. Lean error means you need to add fuel (make the numbers larger) and rich error means you need to subtract fuel (make the numbers smaller). I usually use the paste 1/2 % if the error is under 10%. If its higher I will do the full % paste

    2.) The stock turbo isn't built for high end horse power. It was never intended for that and going above 17psi on that turbo your not going to gain that much more in power if any because of the turbos inefficiency at higher boost levels.
    I am logging them correctly. From the time I start the car to the time I turn it off, when I log, stft b2 and ltft b2 are ALWAYS at -100%. Always. Don't mind just using the first bank (ltft and stft bank 1 work just fine. Just like they are supposed to). So for now when I log I just use bank 1, as that seems to be the only one working. I checked the wires recently as I put on the midpipe, so I know it is plugged in. Are there any settings that I may have fucked with that could cause that?

    And yes, I know it's not going to make much more power, if any. I plan on upgrading, but the difference between 17psi and 20psi is a lot. I can absolutely feel the difference. I will datalog tomorrow and see what I can do.

    After that I need to dig into timing and the torque/PE/DD tables more. I want to be able to have more control over it.

  17. #57
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    its a 4 cylinder so it only has 1 bank so you would use bank 1 only for any type of fueling adjustments that are needed. Dont worry about the bank 2 reading weird sometimes the ecm isn't using that data for anything. you can just remove the bank 2 pids so it doesnt pop up if you want. Good on the upgraded turbo that would be the best move if you wanted to maintain power during the upper rpms because that little guy just cant keep up. Obviously its your choice on how much boost you want to run but I just find the added heat created by stressing the turbo to make more boost then it should when you can keep it in the efficiency range and add a couple degrees of timing a better option but everyone does their own thing. just be careful because going that high you dont leave much room for error if you get a overboost condition
    Last edited by TCSS07; 05-17-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    2.) The stock turbo isn't built for high end horse power. It was never intended for that and going above 17psi on that turbo your not going to gain that much more in power if any because of the turbos inefficiency at higher boost levels.
    You are very wrong. The turbo simply cannot keep up at high RPM so boost will of course drop. When i'm 22+ psi at 4000 rpm and you are at 17, you think there is no power gain there? That is silly.

    Ronin, are you logging desired vs actual boost? You need to make sure it matches up until the Wastegate DC hits max(95). This is the point you know that the turbo cannot flow enough to keep that boost level.

    If you are at 4400+ rpm and underboosting and your wastegate DC is not at 95 yet then you need increase the base DC in that area.

    If I had valve springs I would have no problem running as much boost(it will do 28 at lower rpms) as the turbo can provide.
    Last edited by Jeff7577; 05-20-2019 at 04:49 PM.

  19. #59
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    Youll gain some more torque boosting higher in lower rpm sure but to think that little turbo is built for high end hp is silly. Its 1.4l engine and that turbo is there to give it some get up and go. It's a fuel eco car not a performance car which is why there is a bigger turbo provided by zzp for that very reason and they themselves have said about the stock turbo limitations but to each their own.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by TCSS07 View Post
    Youll gain some more torque boosting higher in lower rpm sure but to think that little turbo is built for high end hp is silly. Its 1.4l engine and that turbo is there to give it some get up and go. It's a fuel eco car not a performance car which is why there is a bigger turbo provided by zzp for that very reason and they themselves have said about the stock turbo limitations but to each their own.
    Yeah, you are totally right but the limitation is in the size of the compressor wheel and its ability to maintain boost at high RPM. I think most mail order tunes are around 20. Even the ZZP turbo is just a stock unit with the housing machined for a larger wheel so that it can maintain boost.

    I honestly can't even imagine running only 17 psi as that is barely over stock. Sure running higher boost means you shift sooner because the power drops off, but the midrange is just that much more insane.