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Thread: P59 and TAC issues Please help me get this rolling

  1. #1
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    P59 and TAC issues Please help me get this rolling

    lots to cover so ill try to keep this to the point, vehicle is a 05 Colorado with 4.8l, 4l80e, 2006 express van ecu and harness with 3 bar os. i purchased a 2006 TAC module and Harness assembly. i then purchased a 2006 envoy/trailblazer pedal assembly as that's what fits in my vehicle physically. i constantly get code U0107 lost comm with tac if i go over 40% throttle or make quick blips of the throttle. ive verified tac module grounds, ignition power, battery power, etc. swapped in another known good 2006 tac module, bought a replacement pedal harness, tried other 2006 pedals. same thing happens every time. I'm at a loss at this point and only thing i can reason is that the etc limits within the tune or something else is hanging me up. it seems that the app sensors in the pedal are seeing ranges the tac doesn't like. but tracking down that info on what ranges should be has been nearly inpossible, i found data for the older 3 APP sensor pedal assemblies and tested my assemblies to see how the APP sensors read to eachother, and the numbers are all very very different. so that diag was pointless. any input or direction is much appreciated, I'm a HP forum noob so if you want my log or tune file to review just lmk how i go about posting it and ill gladly do so. thank you, matt

    PS. truck runs and drives just fine and all other minor tuning tweaks have been a non-issue as long as i stay under 40% throttle.

  2. #2
    Tuning Addict 5FDP's Avatar
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    I'd think the van pedal would be wanted because you are using the van computer with van DBW, TAC and harness.

    The trailblazer pedal assembly may use different part numbers than what the van does and now you get an issue.
    2016 Silverado CCSB 5.3/6L80e, not as slow but still heavy.

  3. #3
    Advanced Tuner Montecarlodrag's Avatar
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    That problem happens when the OS in the PCM is not compatible with the TAC module.
    There are 3 types of TAC modules for Gen3 truck engines. What did the TAC come from? Post a picture of the part number
    For your application I would use a 03-05 metallic pedal (cut and weld to fit) with matching TAC and Throttle. This setup is the most common for Gen3 trucks.
    10 sec Montecarlo SS

  4. #4
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    working a double so ill get pics of everything tomorrow evening. for what ive read all TACs from 02-06 work together. i could see the pedal being an issue as its from a 06-07 trailblazer but i haven't found anything stating it wont until you all mentioned the OS. ill get that of my tuning laptop and post as well so we can see what might cause this. i have the pedal that came with the harness and ecu but when i connect it the TB and ecu doesn't even react. like its not even hooked up. however that could be a dead or bad pedal as i never verified myself it to be operational, however the APP sensors in it react and sweep through the ohms to be what ive found to be accurate, but definitely not 100% on that one either to be honest.

  5. #5
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    TAC module part number is 12590008 just looked up my ebay order here at work. have two of them identical units

  6. #6
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    2006 Trailblazer V8 uses a E40 with no separate TAC, completely different universe. You need a pedal from something designed to work with a P59/TAC.

    From '06 Express Electronic Throttle 'Description and Operation':
    The accelerator pedal assembly contains 2 individual accelerator pedal position (APP) sensors within the assembly. The APP sensors 1 and 2 are potentiometer type sensors, each with the following circuits:
    ? A 5-volt reference circuit
    ? A low reference circuit
    ? A signal circuit

    The APP sensors are used to determine the pedal angle. The control module provides each APP sensor a 5-volt reference circuit and a low reference circuit. The APP sensors then provide the control module with signal voltage proportional to pedal movement. Both APP sensor signal voltages are low at rest position and increase as the pedal is applied.
    From '06 TB Electronic Throttle 'Description and Operation':
    The accelerator pedal contains 2 individual accelerator pedal position (APP) sensors within the assembly. The APP sensors 1 and 2 are potentiometer type sensors each with 3 circuits:
    ? A 5-volt reference circuit
    ? A low reference circuit
    ? A signal circuit

    The APP sensors are used to determine the pedal angle. The engine control module (ECM) provides each APP sensor a 5-volt reference circuit and a low reference circuit. The APP sensors provide the ECM with signal voltage proportional to the pedal movement. The APP sensor 1 signal voltage at rest position is less than 1 volt and increases as the pedal is actuated. The APP sensor 2 signal voltage at rest position above 4 volts and decreases as the pedal is actuated.

  7. #7
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    As a Hail Mary, go to the APP connector and swap some wires around, A>C/C>A. That should reverse the output of APP2, may not be the correct value but it'll at least go the same direction as what the Express TAC is expecting.

    2006 TB diagram.png

    2006 Express diagram.png

  8. #8
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    blindquirrel, you are awesome sir, exact info i was needing. i did infact do the exact wiring swap you described about three weeks ago trying to daig this issue originally thinking my wiring was messed up. your post above that also explains why its hard to find a tac to pedal harness for a trailblazer...cause there isnt one lol. guess im hunting a truck TAC module, have a spare 05 tac harness and pedal, just need the TAC if everyone thinks that will work with my P59. buddies running a similiar setup in his colorado and he has all 04 yukon dbw parts on a P59, idk imagine 05 truck should be the same and cooperate with the OS fine...am i wrong in any of that gents? thanks a ton

  9. #9
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    also...possibly hail mary again....whats the odds of copying e40 throttle tables to my p59 tune and making the pedal assembly work? or is it the tac module reading the pedal thats the main issue. becuase it functions, just not on quick changes or above 40%. thats what made me think it was within the ecu variables/ranges to start with and post on here

  10. #10
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    You should look at 2004 Envoy/TB 5.3L parts & tune files, since that's the pedal you want to/have to use. '04 was P59 with a separate TAC module, and the same pedal mounting config.

  11. #11
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    BTW, '04 & '06 TB pedals have different part numbers but the same bolt pattern (different electrically inside, same outside).

    EDIT: No, sorry! Same p/n.
    Last edited by blindsquirrel; 06-19-2019 at 10:32 PM.

  12. #12
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    TAC module #12588922 and a '04 5.3L Envoy/TB/Rainier/Bravada/whatever OS and you should be good to go (as long as your PCM is compatible). Go back and verify connectors are pinned to match GMT360 diagrams.

  13. #13
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    thanks again blindsquirrel, every search I've done today is showing 2004 envoy as E38 ecu. is there a specific part/model number you have for the tac model I'm in need of? because i have everything else if its P59 compatible. I also have a spare truck pedal and harness so i ordered a 2005 tac module as backup, model 12573059. so if i cant find a bolt in option...then a little fab, heat and weldin to the pedal will have to suffice. function is the main priority!

  14. #14
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    nvm, I'm an idiot...or coffee hasn't fully kicked in, i just now saw your most recent post showing model number....let the hunt continue lol

  15. #15
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    E38 was never used in any of the GMT360s. P59 for '03-04, E40 '05-06, E67 '07-09 when they went to 58x motors. Wherever you're getting that info from you should probably delete that bookmark.

  16. #16
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    and i now have a tac module model 12588922 enroute to me. ill try that one first after verifying harness pinout is proper. if that doesn't jive then well switch to the truck setup and see if the OS agrees with it. fingers crossed. thanks a ton blindsquirrel, even if this isn't a for sure fix it atleast offered me direction on things to check and try. i was getting to a dead spot with the info i had just yesterday.

  17. #17
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    also for record and future lookers....the pedal assembly i have is specifically part number 15145758

  18. #18
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    I can post '04 Trailblazer diagrams/pinouts if you need, don't want to clutter up everything if you already have them.

  19. #19
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    Yes if you don't mind, it'll help me verify tac to pedal harness is pinned properly for when the new tac arrives. Hopefully Monday or Tues

  20. #20
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    Code:
    Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector C1
    Pin	Wire Color	Circuit No.	Function
    1	BK		450		Ground
    2	L-GN		1867		12-Volt Reference
    3	PK/BK	1746		Fuel Injector 3 Control
    4	L-GN/BK	1745		Fuel Injector 2 Control
    5-6	--		--		Not Used
    7	GY		705		5-Volt Reference
    8	GY		597		5-Volt Reference
    9-10	--		--		Not Used
    11	L-BU		1876		Knock Sensor 2 Signal
    12	D-BU/WH	1869		CKP Sensor Signal
    13	OG/BK	463		Requested Torque Signal
    14	OG/BK	1061		UART Serial Data
    15	D-BU/WH	774		UART Serial Data
    16	--		--		Not Used
    17	D-BU		1225		Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal B
    18	RD		1226		Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal C
    19	PK		439		Ignition 1 Voltage
    20	OG		440		Battery Positive Voltage
    21	YE/BK	1868		Low Reference
    22	--		--		Not Used
    23	BK		2759		Low Reference
    24	BK		450		Heater Ground - Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 1
    25	TN		1671		HO2S Low Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    26	TN		1667		HO2S Low Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 1
    27	BK		450		Heater Ground - Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 1 Sensor 2
    28	TN/WH	1669		HO2S Low Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 2
    29	TN		1664		HO2S Low Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 1
    30-31--		--		Not Used
    32	BK/WH	771		Transmission Range Switch Signal A
    33	PU		420		TCC Brake Switch/Cruise Control Release Signal
    34	WH		776		Transmission Range Switch Signal P
    35	--		--		Not Used
    36	BK		1744		Fuel Injector 1 Control
    37	YE/BK	846		Fuel Injector 6 Control
    38	--		--		Not Used
    39	YE/BK	625		Starter Enable Relay Control
    40	BK		450		Ground
    41	--		--		Not Used
    42	WH/BK	2366		Cooling Fan Clutch Control
    43	RD/BK	877		Fuel Injector 7 Control
    44	L-BU/BK	844		Fuel Injector 4 Control
    45	GY		2700		5-Volt Reference
    46	GY		2709		5-Volt Reference
    47	--		--		Not Used
    48	GY		2704		5-Volt Reference
    49-50--		--		Not Used
    51	D-BU		496		Knock Sensor 1 Signal
    52	--		--		Not Used
    53	BK		2762		Low Reference
    54	OG/BK	469		Low Reference
    55-56--		--		Not Used
    57	OG		440		Battery Positive Voltage
    58	D-GN		1049		PCM Class 2 Serial Data
    59	YE		710		Class 2 Serial Data
    60	GY		2365		Low Reference
    61	PK/BK	632		Low Reference
    62	--		--		Not Used
    63	BK		407		Low Reference
    64	BK		450		Heater Ground - Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 2 Sensor 1
    65	PU		1670		HO2S High Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    66	PU		1666		HO2S High Signal - Bank 2 Sensor 1
    67	BK		450		Heater Ground - Heated Oxygen Sensor (HO2S) Bank 2 Sensor 2
    68	PU/WH	1668		HO2S High Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 2
    69	PU/WH	1665		HO2S High Signal - Bank 1 Sensor 1
    70-71--		--		Not Used
    72	YE		772		Transmission Range Switch Signal B
    73	BN/WH	633		CMP Sensor Signal
    74	YE		410		ECT Sensor Signal
    75	PK		1020		Ignition 0 Voltage
    76	BK/WH	845		Fuel Injector 5 Control
    77	D-BU/WH	878		Fuel Injector 8 Control
    78	--		--		Not Used
    79	WH		687		3-2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control
    80	GY		720		Low Reference
    
    Powertrain Control Module (PCM) Connector C2
    Pin	Wire Color	Circuit No.	Function
    1	BK		450		Ground
    2	BN		418		TCC PWM Solenoid Valve Control
    3-4	--		--		Not Used
    5	TN/BK	464		Delivered Torque Signal
    6	RD/BK	1228		PC Solenoid Valve High Control (Sol. A)
    7	--		--		Not Used
    8	L-BU/WH	1229		PC Solenoid Valve Low Control (Sol. A)
    9	D-GN/WH	465		Fuel Pump Relay Control
    10	WH		121		Engine Speed Signal
    11-13--		--		Not Used
    14	RD/BK	380		A/C Refrigerant Pressure Sensor Signal
    15	RD		225		Generator Turn-On Signal
    16	GY/BK	1694		4WD Low Signal
    17-19--		--		Not Used
    20	L-GN/BK	822		VSS Low Signal
    21	PU/WH	821		VSS High Signal
    22-24--		--		Not Used
    25	TN		472		IAT Sensor Signal
    26	PU		2121		IC 1 Control
    27	RD		2127		IC 7 Control
    28	L-BU/WH	2126		IC 6 Control
    29	D-GN/WH	2124		IC 4 Control
    30	D-BU		2364		Cooling Fan Speed Signal
    31	YE		492		MAF Sensor Signal
    32	L-GN		432		MAP Sensor Signal
    33	--		--		Not Used
    34	D-GN/WH	428		EVAP Canister Purge Solenoid Control
    35-38--		--		Not Used
    39	RD		631		12-Volt Reference
    40	BK		450		Ground
    41	--		--		Not Used
    42	TN/BK	422		TCC Solenoid Valve Control
    43	D-GN/WH	459		A/C Compressor Clutch Relay Control
    44	--		--		Not Used
    45	WH		1310		EVAP Canister Vent Solenoid Control
    46	BN/WH	419		MIL Control
    47	YE/BK	1223		2-3 Shift Solenoid Valve Control
    48	L-GN		1222		1-2 Shift Solenoid Valve Control
    49	YE/BK	1827		Vehicle Speed Signal
    50	D-GN/WH	817		Vehicle Speed Signal
    51	YE/BK	1227		TFT Sensor Signal
    52	BN		2391		HO2S Heater Low Control - Bank 1 Sensor 2
    53	RD/WH	3223		HO2S Heater Low Control - Bank 2 Sensor 2
    54	PU		1589		Fuel Level Sensor Signal
    55-56--		--		Not Used
    57	BK		2760		Low Reference
    58	TN/WH	332		Oil Pressure Sensor Signal
    59	PU		806		Crank Voltage
    60	BN		2129		Low Reference
    61	BN/WH	2130		Low Reference
    62	GY		773		Transmission Range Switch Signal C
    63	PK		1224		Transmission Fluid Pressure Switch Signal A
    64	D-GN		890		Fuel Tank Pressure Sensor Signal
    65	--		--		Not Used
    66	PU/WH	2128		IC 8 Control
    67	RD/WH	2122		IC 2 Control
    68	D-GN		2125		IC 5 Control
    69	L-BU		2123		IC 3 Control
    70-71--		--		Not Used
    72	BK/WH	3113		HO2S Heater Low Control - Bank 1 Sensor 1
    74	L-GN		3212		HO2S Heater Low Control - Bank 2 Sensor 1
    75	GY		23		Generator Field Duty Cycle Signal
    76-79--		--		Not Used
    80	BK		2751		Low Reference
    Attached Images Attached Images