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Thread: 08 srt 426 n/a

  1. #1
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    08 srt 426 n/a

    Ok Need Some Help.long story short First Gen3 Hemi build. NGC4 Computer giving me fits for the last few months dialing in this stroker.

    its a 6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.
    Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads
    Big ole camshaft
    Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold
    Hellcat trottle body
    FIC 725 cc/min injectors
    UPR catch can
    Legmaker CAI
    BBE 3in exhaust
    3k stall converter
    Paramount Nag1

    finally got the car to idle and drive however
    problem 1 the idle isn't really stable sometimes it hunts coming out of D or R to P/N sometimes it catches itself, sometimes the surge gets larger and larger until it dies. for the most part it will stay running though
    problem 2 the car pulls you down the road once you reach about 20 MPH you can let off the accelerator and it will slowly keep accelerating like im lightly pressing the pedal. it also has a slight surge while it is doing this.
    Problem 3 LTFT goes way negative the longer it idles. but if i adjust based off the LTFT to pull the 17% from the idle cells in the VE table the car surges and wont idle.
    any help on this would be appreciated. I have attached the last tune file and the datalog from a short drive to work today.
    Attached Files Attached Files
    Last edited by chriscward71; 07-31-2019 at 09:51 PM.

  2. #2
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    What are your cam specs?

    Take your part throttle timing table, 800 rpm column, and copy that entire column and paste it into the 416 and 608 columns.


    Make your Transmission Based Setpoint idle rpms (928) be the same as your Automatic Transmission set points (896)


    Make your Minimum Setpoints be 25rpms less than your Automatic Transmission set points (870 or so)


    Re log and see how it behaves. You need to add to your Throttle Body airflow table to get rid of the auto drive problem, but before you do that try the above to resolve the idling issues. Messing with the throttle body tables can have adverse effects to the idle and you could end up chasing your tail.

  3. #3
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    Thank you 06300SRT,
    I have made your recommended changes to the tune will post the datalog as soon as i take the car for a spin in the next few hours.
    Cam Specs are (duration @.006 280/290, Lift W/1.6 Rocker .605/.611, LSA 113)
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

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    What?s duration @ 0.050? Any advance ground in?

  5. #5
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    throttle up going into gear

    Ok that made it a bit better on the surging and dieing going from D/R to P/N. It still does it a little though it got better as the car warmed up.
    Also when i put it in drive it picks up the RPM to just over 1000rpm instead of staying where the idle set points are at 896rpm. What causes this thing to throttle up going into gear?
    On the short drive it did still pull or auto drive the car with my foot completely off the accelerator. i attached the revised tune file and the data log.

    Thanks,
    Chris
    Attached Files Attached Files
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  6. #6
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    Not exactly sure what it is at .050 Or the ground in advance. It’s a grind from A2 speed
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  7. #7
    Tuner in Training PurpleRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscward71 View Post
    Not exactly sure what it is at .050 Or the ground in advance. It?s a grind from A2 speed

    If it's the cam I have here from A2 it's 235/245 @ 50 I installed it @114.
    I just finished up a 426 based 6.1 (4.08X4.08) with that cam Apache heads(2.20/1.65 valves) 12.5 static compression and a Drag pack intake, can't help with the tune, this 426 is Carbed 710Hp@ 7000, not the cam I would of chosen for this 426 build. it's going in to an 76 Arrow pro stocker car.

  8. #8
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    Nice it sounds like that may be the same or similar cam. mine is a 4.08 X 4.08 426 as well. it seems a carb or standalone would work better with this cam the dodge computer doesn't seem to like it.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  9. #9
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    i am going to try to add to the Air flow tables. I did find a hellcat TB air flow model and my numbers in the lower voltages were quite a bit lower.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  10. #10
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    Nailed it. PT surge at low speed gone and auto drive gone. had to raise the airflow model numbers a little higher than the hellcat numbers probably due to it being a ported TB. Of course after changing those numbers the VE tables were off in the lower rpm Higher vacuum areas. For anyone reading in. the fueling guide for tuning VE from the HP tuners dodge course makes this as easy as three 8-10min part throttle drives.
    Thanks 06300CSRT8, got me back on track this engine sofar has laid down 563 rwhp at 7100rpm. And now I think it’s going to also be a nice street car.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  11. #11
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    Also I have a set of deatshwerks 60 lb/hr balanced set of injectors. They have about 100 miles on them. Comes with the flow data. Part number 17U-00-0060-8. $400 for the set PM me if your interested.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  12. #12
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    Ok drove the car for about 15 miles on the highway car ran great went to park. As soon at it went into park it started surging again and died. After that it would not restart until I reloaded the tune.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  13. #13
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    Means you added too much airflow at the lower (0 and few cells above that). Try taking some back out, can also use the small airflow table to get more granular. Takes patience to get it just right. If you look back at logs where it was auto driving and low speed surging TPS voltage wise, you can avoid those spots and leave them how they are set now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscward71 View Post
    Also I have a set of deatshwerks 60 lb/hr balanced set of injectors. They have about 100 miles on them. Comes with the flow data. Part number 17U-00-0060-8. $400 for the set PM me if your interested.
    If I had two nickels to rub together this month I'd buy em

  15. #15
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    Finally after a week of adjusting the air flow model. Finally got it nailed down. That small range table is a royal PITA. Very small number differences make big changes and I’m not sure exactly how this table works and is referenced since doing the math to put the flow numbers exactly where that should be does not give the result you would expect. It seems like it should be a curvilinear equation to plug in the airflow axis numbers. (Doesn’t work) but leaving the airflow numbers in the axis stock and adjusting the voltages little by little in the areas does work. Very confusing engine management.
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.

  16. #16
    Tuner in Training PurpleRam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscward71 View Post
    Very confusing engine management.
    understatement of the day....LOL these DCX era Hemis can be intimidating..I know for me it is.
    10.55@130 Mph Not too bad for 392Ci NA 4400lbs truck

  17. #17
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    For sure I play with my car on the daily, datalog every drive, there’s always something that doesn’t feel right. Adjust it to correct the little quarks and something else changes. Now I’m working with it slight surging at low speeds but only with the A/C on and foot off the accelerator. Makes me want to go stand-alone more and more just for simplifying drive-ability tuning
    6.1 based 426 stroker fully forged 11.5:1 compression.,Thitek CNC 6.1 Heads, Big ole camshaft, Edelbrock Victor II intake manifold, Hellcat cnc ported TB, FIC 725 cc/min injectors, Legmaker CAI, UPR catch can, BBE 3in exhaust, 3k stall converter , Paramount Nag1, 1K Hp driveshaft and axels, Wavetrac LSD. 400 shot laughing gas on progressive controller. Fore dual pumps with fc3 controller.