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Thread: Having load drop on a 2017 3.5 ecoboost with crp turbos

  1. #1
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    Having load drop on a 2017 3.5 ecoboost with crp turbos

    Been fighting getting this right for a while.

    around 4800-5000 rpms it starts to diverge from everything i'm requesting it to do and just bleed power off and wastegate.

    Now... I can use pressure differential under airflow -> pressure control to get desired TIP to go up, but it makes the truck close the throttle quite a lot to get it where i want it to be making the extra boost it's generating much less effective.

    Here's a log:

    meh.hpl

  2. #2
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    Well you guys compare these 2 logs and tell me what you think i did. This isn't fixed in my eyes because of the throttle but tell me this isn't odd stuff.

    meh2.hpl

    The difference in these logs represents easily 100 whp.

  3. #3
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    So, I don't know how much the TB is affecting power in a force-fed setup, but the 2nd tune is kicking butt. If those engine torques numbers are accurate, then you are in the 540-600whp range up top... you have solid timing and airflow. Nice!

    I'm interested to see what you did there.
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  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBBm3 View Post
    So, I don't know how much the TB is affecting power in a force-fed setup, but the 2nd tune is kicking butt. If those engine torques numbers are accurate, then you are in the 540-600whp range up top... you have solid timing and airflow. Nice!

    I'm interested to see what you did there.
    Yes, the truck does make right at 600 whp on the 2nd datalog i linked.

    The issue i'm having is i can't find a way in the tune besides what i did for the 2nd datalog to get TIP desired to go up. Without TIP desired going up, TIP drops as i rev out making it stay right at 50 lb/min for some reason.

    I can't find a good way to get TIP to go up besides throttle differential but that results in it closing the throttle.

    This method is also semi inconsistent in power, it sometimes makes less power than other times.
    Last edited by w00t692; 01-20-2020 at 08:34 AM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by w00t692 View Post
    Yes, the truck does make right at 600 whp on the 2nd datalog i linked.

    The issue i'm having is i can't find a way in the tune besides what i did for the 2nd datalog to get TIP desired to go up. Without TIP desired going up, TIP drops as i rev out making it stay right at 50 lb/min for some reason.

    I can't find a good way to get TIP to go up besides throttle differential but that results in it closing the throttle.

    This method is also semi inconsistent in power, it sometimes makes less power than other times.
    Less as in timing/torque; I’m guessing? Care to post a tune or PM me one? It looks like driver demand is raised significantly, but I’m wondering if it’s something simple like increasing inverse engine torque where needed? I’m just brainstorming here and going off things that I’ve learned.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBBm3 View Post
    Less as in timing/torque; I?m guessing? Care to post a tune or PM me one? It looks like driver demand is raised significantly, but I?m wondering if it?s something simple like increasing inverse engine torque where needed? I?m just brainstorming here and going off things that I?ve learned.
    I've done that before, increased the inverse load values at the areas i was having trouble and it DOES have an affect on this problem. But it still fights it every step of the way. By doing that i can get it to basically drop to about 2.02 to 2.05 by 6k.

    If i do it this way, it closes the throttle on me but runs a load like i want it to.

  7. #7
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    So, I’m having kind of the same problem. I’m tuning on the street and it looks like you are on a Dyno, but I’ve just got into playing around with my 2020 raptor... BUT every time it closes the throttle in that ~4800rpm region too for just a second, then opens back up. It’s upsetting to say the least. I’m not exceeding LSPI tables, but it’s close. For some reason, my turbo airflow desire is differing. Also, my EWC is not following my commands exactly. So, I think that I’m having other problems.
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  8. #8
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    This is a TIP calculation problem, and throttle differential helps to skew the TIP calculation in my favor, but that setting specifically closes the throttle so i definitely don't want to use it.

    I just am not sure which value is causing my final tip result to skew lower as i pass 4800ish rpms.

  9. #9
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    Well, I?m definitely interested to see what you figure out. I?m having the damnedest time with this TB closure. On my 2019 (non HO), I did not experience this problem, and it?s basically the same tune.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBBm3 View Post
    Well, I?m definitely interested to see what you figure out. I?m having the damnedest time with this TB closure. On my 2019 (non HO), I did not experience this problem, and it?s basically the same tune.

    That's the thing, 2018+ DO NOT EXPERIENCE THIS ISSUE at this airflow and i cannot find in the tune why they do not experience this. I'm not sure what's driving it.

    Basically TIP Desired Max for Turbo Speed drives my TIP down and forces the truck to pull out a ton of wastegate to keep airflow right at 50 lb/min.

    I cannot get it to stop doing this without a specific setting under airflow that seems to help skew the TIP calculation in my favor, but that then skews throttle opening out of my favor.

  11. #11
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    So, I was glancing a little bit. Under the TB tabs, can’t you start turning off the functions (Via 0 or 1) that control the TB to force it open? Again, I’m just brainstorming... I realize this is not the best fix, but it may work for the time being.
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  13. #13
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    popcorn has shown up even when the load isn't limited and torque is met. Is it really?

    In fact it always shows up at WOT basically.
    Last edited by w00t692; 01-28-2020 at 09:08 AM.

  14. #14
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    It says it's limiting so something is up. You can disable this limit under throttle tab. Popcorn is responsible for may different unexplained tb closings.

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    That limit is disabled already. It's not that.

    It's the fact that tip desired keeps dropping and tip actual follows it, driving power and wastegate down.

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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by veeefour View Post
    It says it's limiting so something is up. You can disable this limit under throttle tab. Popcorn is responsible for may different unexplained tb closings.
    Can you post how please?

  18. #18
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    testing_1.hpt
    for HPT.hpl

    Here's the cal and a datalog with this cal.

    Note the MAP from desired airmass is just plain wrong. But here's the thing.

    I don't have a clue what comes first in this equation.

    I don't know if turbo speed desired forces it down first, if MAP from desired airmass is somehow wrong, if somehow TIP is driven down by something, or what!!

    This is endless frustration for me because when i use throttle pressure differential it bumps MAP up, which bumps TIP up which "fixes" the problem, but then it's pulling throttle despite not meeting the desired load.

  19. #19
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    Something, in my opinion, is not exposed in the tune that i need access to to fix this.

    My basis for this logic is that a 2018+ truck that has a larger turbo than a 17 does not have this problem. If i take one of my tunes that worked perfectly on a 19 truck, apply the same settings, it acts COMPLETELY the hell different right around where you see desired TIP and Turbo Speed nose dive.

    I know 2018 turbos are not the same as CRP stage 3 2017 turbos, but they're very very close, the compressor wheels are not very different and the turbine wheels and wastegates are the same.
    Last edited by w00t692; 01-29-2020 at 11:00 PM.

  20. #20
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    So, I don’t have my laptop on me, but have you edited the turbo/coefficient tables?
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