Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 41

Thread: 2007 Trailblazer SS Beginning tune

  1. #21
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Raising shift pressures is good (less slip), reducing the shift timing tables is good (even less slip), reducing Shift TM (lots more slip) in a 400HP, ~5000lb AWD SUV scares me a little.
    Did I reduce the Shift TM? if so, I went backwards, or was unintended, I know slip is bad except maybe in a dead stop launch state, which I would still like to improve on just a tiny bit, just not sure how yet.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  2. #22
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by 00GrcyGtr View Post
    Which specific tune are you referring to, tune 1 or the one labeled "add shift bumps", they are the same tune with only a couple (what I thought) were shift firmness and timing adjustments.
    Also, are the settings you refer to maxing anything like "zeroing out" as I've heard some say? I am told this is bad on trannys.
    It looks like you increased the WOT shift MPH in the "no limit" tune. I'm not sure why. I'd return it to stock.

    I wouldn't recommend zeroing out transmission TM in your application. Save that for when you have a fully built transmission.

    For now, just increase the line pressure by bumping the base shift pressure tables in 1-2 and 2-3 upshift tables. Increase them by 10% to start with.

    Then you might reduce the shift times to around .25 secs.

    After that, I would zero the trans TM on the 1-2 shift only and reduce trans TM on the 2-3 and 3-4 by 50%. You aren't like to damage the second gear band in that trans. However, you're very likely to smoke high gear clutches. That's why I'd recommend leaving 50% TM on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts.
    Last edited by kevin87turbot; 03-22-2020 at 10:55 AM.

  3. #23
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Raising shift pressures is good (less slip), reducing the shift timing tables is good (even less slip), reducing Shift TM (lots more slip) in a 400HP, ~5000lb AWD SUV scares me a little.
    Are you saying best to leave all the Trans TQMgt reduction numbers alone then?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  4. #24
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Meridian MS
    Posts
    624
    I have my shift timing at .250s across the board, and this is my shift TM table...

    screenshot.22-03-2020 11.53.48.png

    Still a work in progress, under certain conditions like lifting the throttle just before a shift it bangs harder than it needs to. I need to raise it even more in the lower torque cells.

    With the stock tune it makes an awful double-bump 1-2 shift even at less than full throttle, the shift timing was way too long and not enough torque reduction.

  5. #25
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin87turbot View Post
    It looks like you increased the WOT shift MPH in the "no limit" tune. I'm not sure why. I'd return it to stock.

    I wouldn't recommend zeroing out transmission TM in your application. Save that for when you have a fully built transmission.

    For now, just increase the line pressure by bumping the base shift pressure tables in 1-2 and 2-3 upshift tables. Increase them by 10% to start with.

    Then you might reduce the shift times to around .25 secs.

    After that, I would zero the trans TM on the 1-2 shift only and reduce trans TM on the 2-3 and 3-4 by 50%. You aren't like to damage the second gear band in that trans. However, you're very likely to smoke high gear clutches. That's why I'd recommend leaving 50% TM on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts.

    In your first message you said the PE vs TPS was backwards, are you refering to this?

    Screenshot (33).png
    That was an error I think, stock is all 87 and I think I misunderstood part of the description and read info maybe?
    The only shift "mph" that was changed from stock tune was the 3->4 shift, it was set at over 300 (top graph is from stock read)

    Screenshot (34).png

    As for anything zeroed in the trans side, (All this in Trans) In Tq Mngt, I have only reduced torque reductions by 20%, increased the Stall Tq Mgt to 7000rm. In Shift timing, I reduced upshift timing "Base patternX" by 20%.
    In shift presures "upshift" I increased pattern X and the 1->2 as well as 2->3 shift modifiers all by 20%.
    Your original post, item 2, all maxed
    On the engine side, I think I got it, however, on the TRANS Side, Tq Converter under apply/release, is there a reason the 2nd apply and release are all set high like this in speed and TPS? I haven't touched them, and may not be understanding correctly.

    Screenshot (35).png

    I'm not sure what you meant by "trans TM", I'm not sure which table exactly this is, and the factory setting of what I find that MIGHT be it is less than 50% from the factory.

    So this attached tune is adjusted a little more and is named base stock tune-II

    Thanks for all the feedback you guys, it's awesome!
    Last edited by 00GrcyGtr; 03-22-2020 at 12:29 PM. Reason: Links didn't work?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  6. #26
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    I have my shift timing at .250s across the board, and this is my shift TM table...

    screenshot.22-03-2020 11.53.48.png

    Still a work in progress, under certain conditions like lifting the throttle just before a shift it bangs harder than it needs to. I need to raise it even more in the lower torque cells.

    With the stock tune it makes an awful double-bump 1-2 shift even at less than full throttle, the shift timing was way too long and not enough torque reduction.
    My factory tune is way lower than this.

    Screenshot (36).png

    Doesn't your higher values create more torque reduction, thus more slippage?
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  7. #27
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    396
    Quote Originally Posted by 00GrcyGtr View Post
    In your first message you said the PE vs TPS was backwards, are you refering to this?

    Screenshot (33).png
    That was an error I think, stock is all 87 and I think I misunderstood part of the description and read info maybe?
    That's right. You'll want to reduce this TPS threshold at higher rpms.

    The only shift "mph" that was changed from stock tune was the 3->4 shift, it was set at over 300 (top graph is from stock read).
    Oh, I see now. I had accidently clicked on the HOT full throttle shift speed. Hopefully that table never comes into play.

    Screenshot (34).png

    As for anything zeroed in the trans side, (All this in Trans) In Tq Mngt, I have only reduced torque reductions by 20%, increased the Stall Tq Mgt to 7000rm. In Shift timing, I reduced upshift timing "Base patternX" by 20%.
    In shift presures "upshift" I increased pattern X and the 1->2 as well as 2->3 shift modifiers all by 20%.
    Your original post, item 2, all maxed
    On the engine side, I think I got it, however, on the TRANS Side, Tq Converter under apply/release, is there a reason the 2nd apply and release are all set high like this in speed and TPS? I haven't touched them, and may not be understanding correctly. This factory strategy simply doesn't lock the TCC in 2nd gear. I'd leave that as is.

    Screenshot (35).png

    I'm not sure what you meant by "trans TM", I'm not sure which table exactly this is, and the factory setting of what I find that MIGHT be it is less than 50% from the factory.

    It's the Transmission Torque Reduction table.

    So this attached tune is adjusted a little more and is named base stock tune-II

    Thanks for all the feedback you guys, it's awesome!

  8. #28
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Originally Posted by blindsquirrel
    I have my shift timing at .250s across the board, and this is my shift TM table...



    Still a work in progress, under certain conditions like lifting the throttle just before a shift it bangs harder than it needs to. I need to raise it even more in the lower torque cells.

    With the stock tune it makes an awful double-bump 1-2 shift even at less than full throttle, the shift timing was way too long and not enough torque reduction.
    My factory tune is way lower than this.



    Doesn't your higher values create more torque reduction, thus more slippage?

    Hey, I bumped this as I wasn't sure you saw it and am still in question.
    Thanks!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  9. #29
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Posts
    396
    Yes, Higher Torque Reduction numbers reduces engine power levels even more during the shifts. For best performance, you'll want to reduce those numbers. I wouldn't recommend deleting trans torque management entirely on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts...at least until you are ready to build the trans. Just reduce it by 50%.
    I usually zero the 1-2 TM entirely, simply because the transmission bands pretty strong in your application.

  10. #30
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by kevin87turbot View Post
    Yes, Higher Torque Reduction numbers reduces engine power levels even more during the shifts. For best performance, you'll want to reduce those numbers. I wouldn't recommend deleting trans torque management entirely on the 2-3 and 3-4 shifts...at least until you are ready to build the trans. Just reduce it by 50%.
    I usually zero the 1-2 TM entirely, simply because the transmission bands pretty strong in your application.
    I just reduced it all by 20% for now, the pic posted of my stock tune is above, so less 20% across the board. I'll see how this works for now.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  11. #31
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137

    A little more tweaking, Thoughts anyone?

    So I tried firming shifts, they really didn't feel as good on this tune as the prior tune, not sure why. It's actually in a previous post here title "first tune attempt" called TB3SS base stock tune-I no limit PE and TCM
    I will also note, although the HP and TQ was pretty much the same, the absolute peaks were higher in the first, not by a lot and I'm sure little factors can affect this, so just a note.
    I'm quite sure I can lower my shift rpm points down to the 6400 I had, they are at 6450 and tough the red (6500) a bit every now and then, but that couple hundred RPM doesn't affect the rpm drop enough to keep hitting the red I don't think. If I am wrong, please let me know.

    So I have attached the comparison from tune 1 with a log here (if you wanna compare to as is now)

    tune 1 2nd hit thru 2nd with hwy run.hpl
    TB3SS base stock tune-I no limit PE and TCM.hpt

    This is the tune 2, adjusted shift pressures some TCM and timing, firmed shifts ( I think) with pressure settings, fixed a PE vs TPS table setting, but you can compare them if you would.

    3-22-20 tune 2 hit 2 1-2 and 2-3 plus.hpl
    TB3SS base stock tune-II no limit PE and TCM add shift bump and timing.hpt

    I welcome all feedback, especially as it pertains to shift, they really did feel soft to me for some reason.
    The launch feels better, comes on quicker than before, but it still won't spin the tires even on damp pavement (which isn't a bad thing really) just makes me wonder if there is still a bit more there at the launch.

    I posted a couple questions previously as well, still wondering if the tune works the same across settings with TCC and STBLtrak enable or disabled.

    Thanks guys!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  12. #32
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Meridian MS
    Posts
    624
    Quote Originally Posted by 00GrcyGtr View Post
    My factory tune is way lower than this.

    Screenshot (36).png

    Doesn't your higher values create more torque reduction, thus more slippage?
    That table is the % of engine torque to reduce by, which it achieves by reducing spark timing. Bigger numbers = less timing = less torque = less slip during the shift.

    I am not looking to bang gears burn rubber and impress the laideez... I'm trying to be nice to the puny trans GM for whatever reason decided to put in these giant tanks. And besides, an invisible, seamless shift feels nicer to me. YMMV and all that.

  13. #33
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Meridian MS
    Posts
    624
    Stock tune:


    Reduced shift timing, increased pressures, increased Shift TM:


    If you were a transmission, would you rather make the 1-2 shift at 174lb/ft, or at 29lb/ft?

  14. #34
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    That table is the % of engine torque to reduce by, which it achieves by reducing spark timing. Bigger numbers = less timing = less torque = less slip during the shift.

    I am not looking to bang gears burn rubber and impress the laideez... I'm trying to be nice to the puny trans GM for whatever reason decided to put in these giant tanks. And besides, an invisible, seamless shift feels nicer to me. YMMV and all that.
    Yeah, so I guess I should warn you, if I start sentences with "yeah, yeah well" or "so...." there is likely humor and fun sarcasm...........
    So..... I could care less about impressing the ladies, I have a great doG (former client told me during my divorce, if you can't find a good women, get a good doG, I did)

    Now, back to tuning... So that table affects the pressure at which the trans shifts, meaning to compare my stock tune numbers (as in the chart here) to any lower numbers like me reducing it by 20% as I think I may have is doing nothing to really quicken and firm shifts, other than just pounding the band (thus even MORE slip) as it does with trying to induce more torque as I evidently did, although it felt like less firmness, I was simply abusing my tranny in a bad way.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  15. #35
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137

    If I were a tranny

    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    Stock tune:


    Reduced shift timing, increased pressures, increased Shift TM:


    If you were a transmission, would you rather make the 1-2 shift at 174lb/ft, or at 29lb/ft?
    If I were a tranny, I'd have lost all my friends, oh you mean TRANSMISSION, like in a car, well then, yes if I were getting banged like on a 1->2 shift, I'd rather it be like being hit with a piece of balsa wood over a pine 2x4 any day!
    So, now I think I can find some direction in that area that will save me (and my tranny) much grief.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  16. #36
    Advanced Tuner
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    Meridian MS
    Posts
    624
    So that table affects the pressure at which the trans shifts,
    No, that table - the Shift TM (Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction > Pattern X/Y/Z) - is the % of torque reduction it wants, and only during the shift. It reduces engine torque by pulling spark timing. Note the spark and torque in the before/after logs. The marker is located at the point of minimum spark timing. Dropping spark to -1.4* ("25%" reduction in the stock tune) nets 174lb/ft , dropping spark to -18.6* ("62%" reduction) nets only 29lb/ft, for the ~.300s it takes to complete the 1-2.

  17. #37
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    No, that table - the Shift TM (Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction > Pattern X/Y/Z) - is the % of torque reduction it wants, and only during the shift. It reduces engine torque by pulling spark timing. Note the spark and torque in the before/after logs. The marker is located at the point of minimum spark timing. Dropping spark to -1.4* ("25%" reduction in the stock tune) nets 174lb/ft , dropping spark to -18.6* ("62%" reduction) nets only 29lb/ft, for the ~.300s it takes to complete the 1-2.
    No, I get it, I used the term "pressure" and in fact was thinking "as you said" the torque reduction at the time of shift. I am pretty sure I understand the concept now, I know I worded my comment wrong.
    I maybe should use a firmness type wording, as tons of torque at a shift point on these stock trannys "as you previously noted" has to induce slip if I understood your previous comment.
    Essentially what I think I was feeling (if I'm understanding you cause I was thinking backwards) when I said shifts felt less firm, well they did and I will presume it was cause I subtracted instead of adding in that table which at that point, wasn't pulling timing and making the torque drop for (.300s) it was doing the reverse and keeping advance and pounding the band thus likely actually making it slip.

    I do get the concept now for sure, even if my grammar is poor. I really do appreciate your taking the time tho, seriously. I do this every day for my clients in my business and I know how thankful they are, just wanted to pass that on.
    I have already went back and made corrections, especially here (Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction > Pattern X/Y/Z).
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  18. #38
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137

    New tune with log, but......

    So I took some advice, I read and viewed some more, looked at some repository stuff and I Attempted a new tune, now the beginning of tune 3, we'll call it 3.0

    TB3SS tune-3.0 no limit - PE - new TCM - spark.hpt

    And the Log

    Tune 3 with online adjustments short pull.hpl

    The truck felt better, shifts were way better, seemed to pull well the short one I was able (didn't have time to go to little Mexico)
    Thought maybe one of you guys might have a look at this one.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  19. #39
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    So I think this is called a bump?
    Anyway, you guys have been a great help, and I hope I found a couple things in the repository that also helped, but I would totally love it and appreciate it if anyone of you "more that tuner in training" guys may have a look at this last (most recent) tune, tune 3 and shoot me a little feedback.
    I would like to know I am heading in the good direction and not reversing a few things as I did, and especially if there may be just a little more (not to the ragged edge mind you) left in this truck.
    It felt better, seemed to pull pretty smooth, but still feel the initial take off (not just launch, but feeling at 20 to 30 feet out) could use a little more if it is there to be had.

    Thanks again, in advance and I can always have a case of beer, bottle of wine or even some soft drinks delivered for your efforts.
    I am still learning, readin a little every day, watching tons of vids, but the best info always comes straight from the horse that has done pulled the plow!
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS

  20. #40
    Tuner 00GrcyGtr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2016
    Location
    Westfield, IN
    Posts
    137
    Quote Originally Posted by blindsquirrel View Post
    No, that table - the Shift TM (Trans > Torque Management > Torque Reduction > Pattern X/Y/Z) - is the % of torque reduction it wants, and only during the shift. It reduces engine torque by pulling spark timing. Note the spark and torque in the before/after logs. The marker is located at the point of minimum spark timing. Dropping spark to -1.4* ("25%" reduction in the stock tune) nets 174lb/ft , dropping spark to -18.6* ("62%" reduction) nets only 29lb/ft, for the ~.300s it takes to complete the 1-2.
    So, aside from maybe having a look at this last tune, #3, I still have so many questions I am not finding answers to very easily.
    The first part is how is my written tune affected, if at all, when I turn off TCC or STBLTrack. Do disabling these items use more or less of the tune in certain places? I.E. do I get higher rpm shifts, more or less PE etc. with either or both disabled?
    This question comes from the tuning of my 2000 Regal GS, as I could set the "sport shift" button and get differences like I mentioned. Turning off the TC did nothing except enhance wheel spin. In fact, in that particular car, tranny and application I was able to adjust a setting that in essence, increased the stall rpm at certain RPM ranges if the sport button was enabled. Thus making my 0-60 and 60 foot times improve a good deal and keep from blowing the tires off at launch.

    The other part is about the patterns, do these or are these initiated (the other patterns/A&B under shift general and the X,Y,Z in other tabs) with any TC or STBLTrack enable or disabled?
    Does the "Adaptive" tab serve the purpose if the above question has merit, in making the "tune" work in all mode settings of the shifter button either enabled or disabled? Mainly, what does enable or disable adaptive do?
    Why would you or do you need to use these other patterns? The A or B and the X,Y,Z? I'm not quite understanding what I am finding for these descriptions.

    If nothing else, point me to a link that might help explain this even.

    Thanks again guys.
    __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________________________________

    "To explain the lure of speed you would have to explain human nature; but it is easier understood than explained...Speed is the second oldest animal craving in our nature..." -- T. E. Lawrence
    2000 Regal GSE
    2007 Trailblazer SS