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Thread: Guidance on injector tuning for 2015 Hellcat.

  1. #1
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Guidance on injector tuning for 2015 Hellcat.

    Total noob here but trying to learn. I want to add larger injectors for future plans: pulley and boost a pump. I am ordering ID-1050-XDS (1050.48.14.14.8) and plan to install them myself (easy day) and do fueling for P/T on the street and then WOT testing on a dyno (the hard part). To begin tackling this task I pulled down the injector data from their website (http://help.injectordynamics.com/hel...nts/4042718026). After looking at the data I went and loaded a read of the current tune in the PCM and adjusted the following tables:

    [ECM] 34050 - Injector Pulse Width vs. Fuel Mass
    [ECM] 34052 - Fuel Mass vs. Injector Pulse Width
    [ECM] 44436 - Startup Injector Pulse Wdith Scalar
    [ECM] 44439 - Inj PW Min
    [ECM] 34070 - Injector Pulsewidth Offset
    [ECM] 34086 - Fuel Mass Mult vs. Fuel Temp

    I noticed that while inserting the data into the UI I could not get exact values to be placed into cells. I placed a ticket in with support as I thought this was a bug and they explained that there are only certain values that can be placed in fields that the original programmer of the PCM/TUNE will allow. I thought this peculiar because what is the difference between 2000.00 and 2004.00. Apparently Binary Coded Decimals on smaller memory footprint systems is a thing, but I'm challenging this assumption so lets see where that goes. I digress. So I tried my best to make sure that the values lined up closely but I learned there is a lot of interpolation that happens on the backend in VCM editor on its own. Don't know if I am a fan of this but I guess I can get used to it as long as I get the results I want and nothing turns into a grenade.

    I've attached a screen shot of what I am talking about
    closeenough.png

    How I scaled the Inj. Pw. vs. Fuel Mass and the inverse table is another story. I noticed that in the stock tune the line is linear so I thougth that if I could get my new data to match that line via linear interpolation I'd be in a good spot to start off with till the pulley comes in. In the same spreadsheet from ID I made a new table and added a linear intepolation function using (0,0) and (443.741, 30000) as the known lines on a 2D graph. From there applied standard linear interpolation and came up with the following values:
    fuelvalues.png

    I did a comparison of the graphs and they both look very linear and the slope is almost the same.
    fuelgraphs.png

    Attached is the tune as well.
    2020101020_ID_Tests.hpt

    So I have the following questions:
    1.) Am I doing this right or is there another method that I'm not aware of?
    2.) Did I miss anything that anyone would like to share?

    The math makes sense in my head because the ID 1050 injectors are on a ratio of 10:21 bigger than stock so I'm okay with the values I created. What I can't get over is that I can't type in exact values into the UI. Is anyone else experiencing this? Is this by design or have I once again found a fringe test case.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  2. #2
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    Get over it....it just aint that critical.

    Their data often needs a few tweaks to get perfect anyways.

  3. #3
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Cowabunga it is! Injectors will be here soon. Either I'll have happy results or it's going to make for one hell of a /thread...

    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by fumanchu182 View Post
    Cowabunga it is! Injectors will be here soon. Either I'll have happy results or it's going to make for one hell of a /thread...

    I followed jays sticky on injector scaling and it worked out great, I have alot to learn and the red eyes run alot more fuel pressure at wot than stock hellcats like yours so I will probably need to scale that a bit but drivability is as good as stock! I used the data down to the scales sent by my injector company, Mine are FIC, use the method outlined in the thread sticky in this forum and its easy to get it within 3% I had to do a couple tweak's that's it, no need to overcomplicate it you have alot to learn like me once you start making more power than stock, so do not sweat the small stuff.

  5. #5
    I did a 6speed 16 hellcat challenger with those 1050x injectors recently. I'll find it and shoot it to you. Worked in NN well too. Got to be damn fine because I never heard a peep from the customer and I see his car from time to time going past me on the highway. Lol his quiet exhaust simply makes the car seem like driving a violin around. LMAO.

  6. #6
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by drumnbasslvr View Post
    I did a 6speed 16 hellcat challenger with those 1050x injectors recently. I'll find it and shoot it to you. Worked in NN well too. Got to be damn fine because I never heard a peep from the customer and I see his car from time to time going past me on the highway. Lol his quiet exhaust simply makes the car seem like driving a violin around. LMAO.
    Would be appreciated if you can. Would like to compare how mine looks to that.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

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  8. #8
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Thanks for the log. Did a side by side diff from id, mine and yours. Your final and my final were not far off. Easy day, hardest part was fishing out my injector clip that decided to be an asshole and spring into the back of the engine bay.



    injdiff.png
    20201010_1251_INJECTORS.hpt
    final_injector_log.hpl
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182

  9. #9
    Tuner fumanchu182's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hemituna View Post
    Get over it....it just aint that critical.

    Their data often needs a few tweaks to get perfect anyways.
    After going through the motion you are 100% correct, little tweaks and then it was spot on. It was relatively freaking easy, dunno what I was concerned about. For a stock hellcat with no mods it's pretty much plug and play.
    Hellcat PB > ET: 10.092, MPH: 135.650, 60': 1.492, R/T: .000
    Bone Stock Scat Pack PB > ET: 11.612, MPH: 119.52, 60': 1.634, R/T: .000 (gone but not forgotten).

    https://youtube.com/user/fumanchu182