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Thread: ZL1 tune with questions

  1. #1
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    ZL1 tune with questions

    Hi all, i have been lurking and reading this site for awhile now. I just received my hp tuners and i am going to be diving into my 2015 ZL1 that i had professionally tuned. The car has 2.5 pulley, headers, highflow cats, catback, cold air intake, flex fuel sensor, and aux pump. I have and need to install an aem wideband.

    So i pulled my tune out of my car and i have a few questions i was hoping someone would be able to help me with.

    It looks like it was tuned maf only so i know i will have to sort that out.

    On to the questions

    1. Does it look like the tune is PE raped? eq ratio gas is all one number but it looks like eq ratio alcohol bounces around.
    2. Does the PE setting make it always in PE? It shows no rpm delay and only 15kpa min map
    3. It looks like the tuner copied my high octane table to the low octane table. Should i just pull 10 degrees out everywhere for the low table?
    4. LTFT idle cells threshold he has enable vss 318mph disable vss 317. What exactly is that doing?
    5. On Knock sensor threshold min he had 50 for all but cylinder 1 he has 150. I am assuming this is a fat finger accident?
    6. It looks like he set my main timing table to be alcohol timing and subtracting timing from gas table instead of adding timing for alcohol. Should I change this around?
    7. Any other glaring issues with my tune?

    I am going to spend some time setting up my scanner parameters tomorrow so I will be looking around the site to see what I should be logging.

    I know I am asking a lot of questions and i appreciate any feedback.

    Ds15ZL1 as found.hpt

  2. #2
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    yeah it definitely looks like you are PE all the time...unless your tune is scaled which i don't think it needs to be. Also your timing falls off a cliff...seems weird to me. You are also running a maf only tune as your dynamic airflow has been disabled. OEM runs a blended tune and having a blended tune is ideal especially with an aftermarket cam. Your PE table has been set to 11.8:1....I dont think it's been "raped" as that is when you adjust PE to match commanded afr and not the maf curve

  3. #3
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    thanks for the reply.

    How would you suggest i keep it out of PE all the time. Should i raise the min KPA or Rpm? or something else completely? How do I check to see if it scaled?

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    1. Looks like you might be out of pump on E85.
    2. Relies solely on throttle position for PE. Those numbers are reasonable
    3. Yes, that would be a good idea. Bit annoying thought having to sort it out with point 6
    4. Kicking LTFT out of idle. Old trick for header cars
    5. Appears that way. The initial level seems a bit high. My settings were given to me that were set up with a plex knock monitor. 250mV
    6. Yeah, bit annoying. Works sure, but annoying yes. Caprice PPV in my opinion is the go to for initial flex setup.
    7. Need the pros for this, they will chime in....
    ECM 12463 O2 Readiness test disabled, think that means full time open loop?
    ECM 12312 IFR vs Volts set to 2.0. Obviously some flow rate scaling. You've got plenty of of room in the injector pressure delta.
    ECM 12319 IFR vs IAT same as above
    The heavy hitters will know better but to my novice eyes it looks like it works. How's the logs coming along?

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    1. Looks like you might be out of pump on E85.
    2. Relies solely on throttle position for PE. Those numbers are reasonable
    3. Yes, that would be a good idea. Bit annoying thought having to sort it out with point 6
    4. Kicking LTFT out of idle. Old trick for header cars
    5. Appears that way. The initial level seems a bit high. My settings were given to me that were set up with a plex knock monitor. 250mV
    6. Yeah, bit annoying. Works sure, but annoying yes. Caprice PPV in my opinion is the go to for initial flex setup.
    7. Need the pros for this, they will chime in....
    ECM 12463 O2 Readiness test disabled, think that means full time open loop?
    ECM 12312 IFR vs Volts set to 2.0. Obviously some flow rate scaling. You've got plenty of of room in the injector pressure delta.
    ECM 12319 IFR vs IAT same as above
    The heavy hitters will know better but to my novice eyes it looks like it works. How's the logs coming along?
    Thanks for the reply.

    I took a two very small logs with out the parameters set up yet. i will go through and set them up tomorrow but i only had a few minutes today to mess with it. i will add what i have.

    log one.hpl

    2.hpl

    Just two really fast small logs with out the parameters set up.
    Last edited by ds15zl1; 05-17-2022 at 08:30 PM.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by ds15zl1 View Post
    Thanks for the reply.

    I took a two very small logs with out the parameters set up yet. i will go through and set them up tomorrow but i only had a few minutes today to mess with it. i will add what i have.

    log one.hpl

    2.hpl

    Just two really fast small logs with out the parameters set up.
    What injectors are you running?
    Your LTFT's are pretty high. They are adding around 19% fuel to your fuel tables...including WOT fueling. It'll be interesting to see what your AF ratio is at WOT when you install the AEM.

  7. #7
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    Here is a channel list that I've put together for my LSA over the last few years. Covers everything that I have ever needed so far. Hope it helps.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kevin87turbot View Post
    What injectors are you running?
    Your LTFT's are pretty high. They are adding around 19% fuel to your fuel tables...including WOT fueling. It'll be interesting to see what your AF ratio is at WOT when you install the AEM.
    ID1050x. I am going to see if somewhere can weld a bung in tomorrow. Then hopefully I can get the aem installed. Unfortunately I work a lot. So I don?t have a lot of time to mess with it. With LTFT being that high does it mean the maf is probably not tuned correctly?


    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    Here is a channel list that I've put together for my LSA over the last few years. Covers everything that I have ever needed so far. Hope it helps.
    Thank you. I will try those out.
    Last edited by ds15zl1; 05-18-2022 at 07:10 AM.

  9. #9
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    Here is a bit longer log with the channels that hjtrob set up.

    It had just rained so its mostly just cruising.

    Does it seem to anyone that my O2 are switching slow?

    3rd log more para (1).hpl
    Last edited by ds15zl1; 05-18-2022 at 01:22 PM.

  10. #10
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    As per kevin87turbot definitely lean! Your injector flow rate reports a constant 16g/s throughout the whole log. I think something is up with those multipliers. Maybe only 1 of them needs the multiplier, not both??? Other option is the double stoic method. Need a heavy hitter to come in and clear up the multiplier method for you (and me).

    Screenshot 2022-05-19 100628.png

    Screenshot 2022-05-19 100726.png

    Screenshot 2022-05-19 101058.png

  11. #11
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    Man thats no good. This is the second tune I have paid for too.

    I have also read that the 1050 do not need scaled. But I am not sure about that.

    How about the O2s do they look like they are switching fast enough?

    Should I try to recalibrate the maf using LT and ST trims until I get my wideband running?

    Glad I got hp tuners because it seems neither tuner I used was any good. Pretty frustrating.

    Thanks everyone for jumping in so far.

  12. #12
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    Pretty sure that was scaled on top of scaled.... Using the volts method to scale isn't anything new, but I've never seen anyone scale it a second time using the IAT multiplier.

    Now here's the bad thing - do you need to scale for the injectors - well not really - at least for your boost level and even then at higher boost levels than that I think you would be OK. Problem - once you fix this your going to have to retune EVERYTHING. Everything is controlled by air - yours is grossly over actual. Going to need timing map redone - I think you could just tune in the higher load areas and be ok here, but maf, ve, idle are ALL going to need to be redone. THANKFULLY you have a manual - if it was auto - you may have some problems...

    O2's weren't tuned for the headers, but your running more air through the motor - may or may not be OK with stock settings. Wideband vs fuel trims would show the truth.
    2010 Vette Stock Bottom LS3 - LS2 APS Twin Turbo Kit, Trick Flow Heads and Custom Cam - 12psi - 714rwhp and 820rwtq / 100hp Nitrous Shot starting at 3000 rpms - 948rwhp and 1044rwtq still on 93
    2011 Vette Cam Only Internal Mod in stock LS3 -- YSI @ 18psi - 811rwhp on 93 / 926rwhp on E60 & 1008rwhp with a 50 shot of nitrous all through a 6L80

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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Pretty sure that was scaled on top of scaled.... Using the volts method to scale isn't anything new, but I've never seen anyone scale it a second time using the IAT multiplier.
    Always learning. Thanks for clearing that up.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by GHuggins View Post
    Pretty sure that was scaled on top of scaled.... Using the volts method to scale isn't anything new, but I've never seen anyone scale it a second time using the IAT multiplier.

    Now here's the bad thing - do you need to scale for the injectors - well not really - at least for your boost level and even then at higher boost levels than that I think you would be OK. Problem - once you fix this your going to have to retune EVERYTHING. Everything is controlled by air - yours is grossly over actual. Going to need timing map redone - I think you could just tune in the higher load areas and be ok here, but maf, ve, idle are ALL going to need to be redone. THANKFULLY you have a manual - if it was auto - you may have some problems...

    O2's weren't tuned for the headers, but your running more air through the motor - may or may not be OK with stock settings. Wideband vs fuel trims would show the truth.
    Thank you for jumping in here. It looks like the correct data from ID is being used for the injectors but for flow rate it is cut in half, am I reading this correctly?

    Should I put the iat multiplier back to stock, pull some timing, and restart tuning the maf? The VE table was never tuned so I was going to have to tune that anyway.

    As for the O2s do you need a wideband in order to tune them for the headers? Also should i wait for my wideband before i start retuning the maf? I know i will have to use the wideband to do WOT.

    I have a wideband i just need to install it. I work 72 hours a week and finding the time is tough.

    I was going to fine tune my tune anyway but it really sucks to pay good money TWICE and still need to completely redo the tune.

    Thank you all again for jumping into this thread.

    One more question. If for now i installed the wideband but used the rear O2 sensor bung that is behind the high flow cat. Would i be able to get it close for now until i can have a bung welding in the collector?
    Last edited by ds15zl1; 05-19-2022 at 07:42 AM.

  15. #15
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    I made changes to the iat multiplier and took some timing out. then ran a log of just idle and a little rev. it is still showing alot of IFR anyone see why. New log and Tune attached.

    fixed injector rate.hpl

    DS2015 as found.hpt

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    The tune file still has both multipliers? Assume you included the wrong one? Log looks good. Fuel trims have come right back.

    Can you add the engine torque PID to your channel list. Forgot to put it in the list I gave you because I use the transmission torque.

    Pretty sure with the rear O2 removed it will get stuck in the cat test. There are numerous reports of that test running and creating havoc with fuel trims. Best to leave the rear O2 alone and weld in a new bung.

    I've copied my timing settings from my LSA into your tune. The flex table is based off a factory Holden Caprice with a little timing added up top.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    The tune file still has both multipliers? Assume you included the wrong one? Log looks good. Fuel trims have come right back.

    Can you add the engine torque PID to your channel list. Forgot to put it in the list I gave you because I use the transmission torque.

    Pretty sure with the rear O2 removed it will get stuck in the cat test. There are numerous reports of that test running and creating havoc with fuel trims. Best to leave the rear O2 alone and weld in a new bung.

    I've copied my timing settings from my LSA into your tune. The flex table is based off a factory Holden Caprice with a little timing added up top.


    Thank you

    here is the tune file with it fixed. not sure how i uploaded the wrong one.

    also does it look like IFR is still too high?
    also the tune has the fuel pump dc set to 99% is that supposed to be like that.
    as found with iat multiplier fixed.hpt

  18. #18
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    Don't see anything wrong with it. It will still do its thing. Can dig a bit deeper once you get your wideband in and can start doing a couple of WOT pulls.

    I definitely recommend you merging my changes across. I changed the alcohol multiplier axis as well. Makes it easier to work with when on E85. Not sure why the tuner would change it to 100.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by hjtrbo View Post
    Don't see anything wrong with it. It will still do its thing. Can dig a bit deeper once you get your wideband in and can start doing a couple of WOT pulls.

    I definitely recommend you merging my changes across. I changed the alcohol multiplier axis as well. Makes it easier to work with when on E85. Not sure why the tuner would change it to 100.
    Awesome thanks.

    I will do that. I will merge them in and my final timing number will end up being close I think but just done the correct way. Thanks for the help. I will get that wideband in and get some logs. I may put it in the rear and shut off all the rear codes until I can drop it off to be welded in the front. That or since the front O2 is not in use during maf tuning I may put it there for the logs.

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    Just letting you know your catalyst test is enabled. This is the correct way to have it for emissions compliance. I think you should research this forum to see if the tune will run ok with an 02 removed. I vaguely remember reading here somewhere that if the cat test is not completed it leaves it rich or something like that. Can't remember for sure, but its sitting there in the back of my mind annoying me enough that I wanted to bring it to your attention... Or one of the senior lads may jump in and answer that for you right here...