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Thread: Learning Curve for dummy aka ME

  1. #1
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    Learning Curve for dummy aka ME

    Hello all, I just picked up my MPVI2+ for tuning and reading codes on my DF Goblin. Ive been having an issue with drivability, same one I had when the motor was in the donor car. I have a random misfire and only am making 4psi of boost upon acceleration. The donor car was a 2007 Cobalt SS LSJ with a 2.8" pulley and Deka 60lb Injectors. The mods are older since the pulley is a 4 bolt pulley but the car was tuned by ZZP for these mods originally. At this point I do not know if someone else went in and changed anything to the tune. I attached the original tune that is on the motor and the data log file from yesterday.

    Any and all help is appreciated. Im new to the tuning part and trying to watch all of Goat Rope Garage's videos to learn as well

    As_Found.hpt8.1.22test.hpl

  2. #2
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    I've been tuning my buddies Goblin. Motor is from a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo with a lot of mods. FAST!

    Anyway, how are your spark plugs? Does your vehicle have an evap? I'd check that and make sure it's working correct because that could be the cause of your issues.

    Your also setting Open Loop Fault. Your MAF Curve needs some adusting. Lower the TPS Threshold for PE.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    I've been tuning my buddies Goblin. Motor is from a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo with a lot of mods. FAST!

    Anyway, how are your spark plugs? Does your vehicle have an evap? I'd check that and make sure it's working correct because that could be the cause of your issues.

    Your also setting Open Loop Fault. Your MAF Curve needs some adusting. Lower the TPS Threshold for PE.
    How does the evap figure in (other than making sure there isn't a vac/boost leak)? He doesn't have a evap system (I've been helping him on the Goblin Forum, but I'm really only familiar with the LNF). Other than that, I saw the same things you did.

    He has turned on some of the applicable DTC's that were off and has gotten a P2119 now. I think he may have a non-oem throttle body.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Thatwhite5.0 View Post
    I've been tuning my buddies Goblin. Motor is from a 2009 Cobalt SS Turbo with a lot of mods. FAST!

    Anyway, how are your spark plugs? Does your vehicle have an evap? I'd check that and make sure it's working correct because that could be the cause of your issues.

    Your also setting Open Loop Fault. Your MAF Curve needs some adusting. Lower the TPS Threshold for PE.
    Spark Plugs are new and pulling the old ones didnt show anything obvious. No Evap on the car. The donor car had a Injen intake that went down into the wheel well, would that make a difference in the MAF readings by going to the much shorter intake on the Goblin? Right now my Power Enrich>Throttle>Hot is set to 88. Is this the parameter your referring to?

    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    How does the evap figure in (other than making sure there isn't a vac/boost leak)? He doesn't have a evap system (I've been helping him on the Goblin Forum, but I'm really only familiar with the LNF). Other than that, I saw the same things you did.

    He has turned on some of the applicable DTC's that were off and has gotten a P2119 now. I think he may have a non-oem throttle body.
    Fancy Seeing you here lol
    Last edited by Ghostknife; 08-04-2022 at 07:43 PM.

  5. #5
    Yes I think the tps/pe change he is talking about is that table. I would try setting it back to stock.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    How does the evap figure in (other than making sure there isn't a vac/boost leak)? He doesn't have a evap system (I've been helping him on the Goblin Forum, but I'm really only familiar with the LNF). Other than that, I saw the same things you did.

    He has turned on some of the applicable DTC's that were off and has gotten a P2119 now. I think he may have a non-oem throttle body.
    What's weird is in the compare file stock tune, P2119 isn't highlighted as supposed to be active from the factory.

  7. #7
    I'm not sure that I would pursue that as a problem at this point then. You might want to see if you can get the service manual for your model and see what it says about what the typical/range of values for throttle and accelerator. For anyone looking in on this, he is seeing APP sensor settings of way over 100%. This doesn't seem right to me, but other people on the Goblin forum have seen the same thing.

    Changing the intake tube will disturb your MAF settings some and probably all of the Goblins would benefit from a maf adjustment. It probably wouldn't be a big change unless the tube diameter where the MAF is mounted is a different size. Assuming it was correct to start with.

  8. #8
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    non oem throttle could be a problem. The throttle pedal module and throttle body are more or less paired units. Typical of of a missmatch to have a p2119 and throttle pedal range code as well to follow suite.
    EVAP doesn't have much play. Removing it completely and throwing or disabling codes defaults the LTFT and forces the ecu into STFT only mode which can be a problem when trying to tune the fuel in. Sometimes the LTFT cell locks in at different trim values based on when the car goes into closed loop. Basically a wandering trim that can be different each key cycle. Best to leave everything enabled for the EVAP and just plug those ports off when not used in a specific configuration.
    MAF tube diameter has a huge impact on teh velocity through the MAF which in return changes the scaling factors drastically. If the intake system is anything other than stock, a MAF calibration is critical. Even a CAI throws them off, sometimes wildly depending on the manufactures filter and MAF positions.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    non oem throttle could be a problem. The throttle pedal module and throttle body are more or less paired units. Typical of of a missmatch to have a p2119 and throttle pedal range code as well to follow suite.
    EVAP doesn't have much play. Removing it completely and throwing or disabling codes defaults the LTFT and forces the ecu into STFT only mode which can be a problem when trying to tune the fuel in. Sometimes the LTFT cell locks in at different trim values based on when the car goes into closed loop. Basically a wandering trim that can be different each key cycle. Best to leave everything enabled for the EVAP and just plug those ports off when not used in a specific configuration.
    MAF tube diameter has a huge impact on teh velocity through the MAF which in return changes the scaling factors drastically. If the intake system is anything other than stock, a MAF calibration is critical. Even a CAI throws them off, sometimes wildly depending on the manufactures filter and MAF positions.

    I will re-install the OEM throttle Body to see if that makes any difference, I will also cap off the evap stuff as well. The Intake cant be stock since the LSJ is in the Goblin chassis and not the cobalt. just not sure of the difference between the Injen that went into the wheel well vs the basic short ram on the Goblin. Here is the data log from yesterday, even though it will probably look the same.

    8.7.22_test.hpl
    Last edited by Ghostknife; 08-08-2022 at 09:11 AM.

  10. #10
    Check the diameter of the tubes where the MAF is mounted and see if they are the same size (if you still have the INJEN). I'm sure that you will need to adjust the MAF before you are done, but I think you need to get it running in closed/open loop correctly (not fault) first.

    Do you have evap stuff that is allowing air into the system? I think what cobaltssoverbooster is suggesting is to leave the wiring of the solenoid in place but definitely need to cap anything that will allow air to enter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    Check the diameter of the tubes where the MAF is mounted and see if they are the same size (if you still have the INJEN). I'm sure that you will need to adjust the MAF before you are done, but I think you need to get it running in closed/open loop correctly (not fault) first.

    Do you have evap stuff that is allowing air into the system? I think what cobaltssoverbooster is suggesting is to leave the wiring of the solenoid in place but definitely need to cap anything that will allow air to enter.
    I'm very sure I threw the intake away but I will check when I get home. I think the EVAP stuff is plugged in electrically but I know I don't have the evap ports capped off .

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    Looking at some sites the Injen is 3" at the MAF

  13. #13
    I don't think the evap solenoid itself needs to be capped (although won't hurt), but anywhere that would feed into the intake needs to be capped. Anything that lets air into the motor other than the filter and through the MAF needs to be closed off.

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    ill have a chance to work on it in the AM and will keep the thread alive and updated.

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    I got the original throttle body put back in and will go for a test rip when I get out of work to see if it acts the same. I also ordered a accelerator pedal for it incase the sensor is bad in that as well.
    Last edited by Ghostknife; 08-15-2022 at 05:20 AM.

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    Ran a Log this morning on my way into the gym, still getting a Accelerator Pedal Position percentage over 100%. New gas pedal will be here tomorrow, will replace and retry.

    8.16.22 log.hpl

  17. #17
    Senior Tuner cobaltssoverbooster's Avatar
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    before you install it, use the scanner to record the pedal voltage vs pedal percentage. record the voltage at which it reports 100% and then see what voltage you get all the way to the floor. I recall this coming up from another in an aftermarket setup and it was resolved with a physical pedal stop. Its been so long im not 100% sure he threw an over percent code like you, but it may have travelled off the range and errored out regardless.
    Before you slap a part at, lets make sure your not overtraveling.
    2000 Ford Mustang - Top Sportsman

  18. #18
    I keep coming across people who say that they have over 100% AP (up to 255%) as being normal and not a problem? His latest log looked better, and it seems like his open loop fault is happening when he is getting a big mismatch between VE airflow and Maf/Dynamic (and this seem to be light throttle decel). This leads to it misfiring on 1 &4 and then OL-fault.

    I think he has a tune that someone started (and maybe screwed up) and never completed. His problems started on his drive home when he first acquired the cobalt donor, so this is a car that has never really ran correctly.

    Maybe I'm way off, but I'm trying to get the basic mechanical possible problems checked, but then it's a start over on tuning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cobaltssoverbooster View Post
    before you install it, use the scanner to record the pedal voltage vs pedal percentage. record the voltage at which it reports 100% and then see what voltage you get all the way to the floor. I recall this coming up from another in an aftermarket setup and it was resolved with a physical pedal stop. Its been so long im not 100% sure he threw an over percent code like you, but it may have travelled off the range and errored out regardless.
    Before you slap a part at, lets make sure your not overtraveling.
    That is something I can check when i get home tonight, thank you!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by gtstorey View Post
    I keep coming across people who say that they have over 100% AP (up to 255%) as being normal and not a problem? His latest log looked better, and it seems like his open loop fault is happening when he is getting a big mismatch between VE airflow and Maf/Dynamic (and this seem to be light throttle decel). This leads to it misfiring on 1 &4 and then OL-fault.

    I think he has a tune that someone started (and maybe screwed up) and never completed. His problems started on his drive home when he first acquired the cobalt donor, so this is a car that has never really ran correctly.

    Maybe I'm way off, but I'm trying to get the basic mechanical possible problems checked, but then it's a start over on tuning.
    i appreciate the help!