Which Wideband?

[EC_Tune]

Mike, you got a pm.
There are 2 things i dont like about the ngk.
1. It olny has 1 output. I know the box itself shows the output but personally i would rather have the controller out of sight.
2. Although i dont totally trust magazine articles. The ngk got the worst rating on the wideband shootout put out by ford muscle magazine. Accuracy was +/- 1.00 afr . Here is the link for the few that have not seen it.

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/r...B_Shootout.pdf

Mike, Could you post a few pics up on where you mounted your controller? Are you mounting it so you could actually read afr from the controller?

You've heard of "junk science"? That article was full of it: in more ways than one.

[jakebdb56]

The sad thing is, once it gets to ls1tech everyone reads it as a bible and doesn't want to do anything other than the "recommended" wideband setup. That's one of the many reasons why I don't post on tech anymore

BTW, is the NGK unit easy to make portable? I like how the LM-1 is so easy to just unplug and go to the next car.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

NGK has a power and a ground wire, that is it. It is very easy. They do not recommend a cig. lighter adaptor, I assume for noise in the system from poor grounding. I am going to test it either way though.

[12secSS]

The NGK unit is one of the easiest to port from vehicle to vehicle. What I would recommend for the power and ground is using battery clips (similar to aligator style clips, but larger) to tap into the vehicles' battery supply. Then all you neeed to do is pull a stock narrow band O2 and replace it with an NTK sensor for use with the NGK unit.

[mike01z]

ironically I just installed an LC1 and didn't have any issues lol. The help files on this forum for lc1 are unbelievable, apparently many have had issues with them in the past. I hooked it up and didn't have any voltage offsets or anything, Good stuff imo.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I never had voltage offsets, just after a month or so kept having heater issues.

[mike01z]

I never had voltage offsets, just after a month or so kept having heater issues.

what like the 02 wouldn't do the heat up process normally? bad ground or something?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

no bad ground, it was a problem with the innovate controller, it kept throwing an overhead code on the sensor.

[mike01z]

I've noticed on my lc1 now that I have been experimenting with it for awhile that it really seems to have to be hot before it reads accuratly and I don't think the starter heater sequence is enough. When its colder it seems to report leaner conditions where as when its hotter all seems stoich,


Granted I may have missed some fueling table or something but Im in the middle of tuning VE so I'm in open loop, OLFA is 1, but my afterstart enrichment is still active and adding to OLFA so I'm suprised it shows lean to be honest for those first 15 mins or so.


What I've been doing lately is not even logging until 15 minutes worth of driving even if the car is already hot when I start it.

[Nitrous]

I Like my F.A.S.T. Dual AFR wideband. I'ts simple to use and powers up through the lighter or you can hard wire it if you wish. It has an awsome display and you can watch both 02 banks or average them. I thought it was going to be complicated but once I fugured out the offsets everything fell into place.

Here's a great article about the top 10 tuning tools and includes the F.A.S.T. wideband and HPTuners.........http://www.gmhightechperformance.com.../photo_06.html Now, if we could just talk HPTuners into adding the F.A.S.T. into their S/W life would be great!

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

I just finished finally getting some runs with the LM1 and NGK, I will post up the stuff from it later tonight.

[ct06gto]

I just finished finally getting some runs with the LM1 and NGK, I will post up the stuff from it later tonight.

Looking forward to your results. As of yesterday i gave up on my lc1 and im trying to get innovate to credit me towards the purchase of a lm1. If not, i will get it replaced for the second time and sell it to buy the ngk or plx.

[ATLSS]

I'm interested in what you found Mike.... because I'll be in the market for a wideband soon.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

Well, had an unexpected refrigerator issue, so I did not have time to put everything together.

In short, I took logs with the both of them and saw the same fueling values. I liked how the NGK was much smoother. Part of this may be the WB sensor for the LM1, as I have had issues with some "noisy" ones in the past. I am going to replace the one on the car with the one I normally use for tuning, which seems to work much better. For the money, I would rather the NGK. I just would install a switch to cut the power to it when not in use. Also, having a nice positive battery lug with another bolt or nut on it would make it much easier to take on and off.

[12secSS]

Well, had an unexpected refrigerator issue, so I did not have time to put everything together.

In short, I took logs with the both of them and saw the same fueling values. I liked how the NGK was much smoother. Part of this may be the WB sensor for the LM1, as I have had issues with some "noisy" ones in the past. I am going to replace the one on the car with the one I normally use for tuning, which seems to work much better. For the money, I would rather the NGK. I just would install a switch to cut the power to it when not in use. Also, having a nice positive battery lug with another bolt or nut on it would make it much easier to take on and off.

Are you using the economical Bosch LSU4 sensor or the higher quality NTK sensor? When I did my test (AEM vs NGK) I ended up with similar results. Once I swapped for the more expensive (yet more accurate) NTK sensor, I noticed a difference, and I posted my findings. Mind you, it was not a lab grade experiment, but I have consistently seen better tunes (more accurate AFR) come out from switching to an NTK sensor versus using the Bosch LSU4. Either way, the results are very welcomed.

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

LM1=Bosch, NGK=NTK

[2000Falcon]

What wide band are you guys using? Are you using a gauge with it as well for everyday monitoring, or just connected to the laptop? Thanks

FJO Racing here, and love it. Great customer support as well.

[ShoddyHog]

I have had a PLX SM-AFR installed since November, and haven't had a single problem with it. It couldn't be more simple...no configuration, calibration, or anything.

Gerry

[pwoolford]

I have the LM-1 and am having so much trouble I'm ready to throw it in the trash and buy the NGK. Does anyone have the NGK running to a guage on the pillar?

[WS6FirebirdTA00]

whats wrong with the LM1?